The Dirt Life
The Dirt Life
Navigators in Offroad - Kyle Craft, Trevor Ellingham, Jason Montes, Evan Weller, Emma Cornwell, Josh Felix
How do seasoned off-road racers and navigators build the unbreakable bond that can make or break a race? This episode of the Dirt Life Show takes you deep into the heart of off-road racing navigation with our special guest, Kyle Craft, who has navigated for legends like BJ Baldwin and Alan Ampudia. We explore the various navigator styles, from methodically following rally notes to relying on sheer instinct. Erica and I also reveal how understanding and syncing your navigation style with your driver's can be the secret weapon to winning races.
Trust, communication, and mutual understanding are the bedrock of any successful driver-navigator partnership. Listen to Kyle Craft and Trevor Ellingham recount their own stories of navigating emotional and technical challenges that come with the territory. We compare these partnerships to personal relationships, showing how familiarity and synchronization can lead to smoother races. Learn from their experiences about maintaining composure, making precise calls, and the thrill of achieving perfect synchronization.
Finally, we share practical advice and fascinating anecdotes from experienced navigators like Emma Cornwell and Erica. Discover tips on handling mechanical issues, managing driver fatigue and nutrition, and the importance of pre-race preparations. Whether you're interested in the dynamics of racing family members or the incredible challenges female navigators face, this episode covers it all. From pre-running nuances to the excitement of the Baja 500, tune in and gain a deeper understanding of the thrilling, unpredictable world of off-road racing.
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Welcome to the Dirt Life Show with your host, George Hammond.
Speaker 2:the ways that you guys can watch the show. You guys can always hit us up through Facebook, youtube, obviously, instagram Live, anytime you want to sit behind the wheel of your car, throw it up on Spotify, throw it up on iTunes. All that good stuff makes it a little bit easier to follow the drive. We know that you guys have been hitting up iTunes a lot lately, so thank you very much for getting our numbers up on that. Thanks to everybody that helps sponsor the show. Thanks to the guys at Max's tires uh, especially for keeping me crispy with this nice fresh white shirt. Thanks to guys over at shock therapy. We were able to visit them yesterday in phoenix and we did some helicopter testing with starlink. So thank you, justin and dom, for helping us with the helicopter testing. Uh. Thanks to guys over at evolution power sports if, if you guys didn't see it, uh, today, uh, they just launched a turbo kit for the Polaris expedition dude. It looks oh yeah, it looks so factory. So go pick one of those up for your grandpa rig. I know I definitely am when I get my grandpa rig.
Speaker 2:Uh, check out Zolinger racing products. You can get any of your products to match up with some of those shock therapy products. They get some tie rods, get some, uh, radius rods, anything uh that you want. They got the billet bling uh. And thank you to guys over at vision, canopy kyle and his crew. They are always helping everybody in off-road, so please support the companies that support us. And thanks to the guys at star stream pro. All right, let's see here. So, luke, thanks uh for joining. Quite refreshing for us co-dogs to get some limelight. Yeah, not just to get some limelight, but I think Erica is going to be a good resource for us today, because I think we're going to shed some light on tips and tricks too, for people that don't race or want to be a navigator too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think this is a good opportunity to get a couple different angles at it. I do it different than other people. Um, I always say, like you know, I have my way, others have their way, find your way. So you're going to be able to hear me Kyle craft, T, donk Trevor Um, we're just gonna. You know, everyone's going to talk about their style, and so find what may work for you and make it your own out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So pay attention to all the different guys that are in girls that we talked to today, because I think that those people will give you a little bit of insight into what matches best with your personality or your style. Um, robert Schnell, shell, um, thanks for joining us. Man, yeah, top nabs, johnny Nelson, oren Anderson, all of those guys Well, actually we haven't had Jake Velasco on the show, I don't think, but all those guys are great, and there's many, many more out there too. So well, let's do it. Mike Gardner what's up? Dude, chris Neuer, let's get Kyle Kraft on. So, kyle's been racing for quite a while now. He's been a co-dog for a lot of famous drivers, right like he's been with bj baldwin. He sits passenger seat with, uh, alan ampudia now, uh, it's just cool to see man kyle craft. What's up?
Speaker 1:what's going on guys?
Speaker 2:how are you?
Speaker 1:dude. Oh uh, a little tired, been working a lot of hours.
Speaker 2:But uh, yeah, great happy to be here yeah, thanks for joining us, dude, and uh, it's been a little while since we've seen you, but what was the last race that you were in?
Speaker 1:probably uh the bottom of that. I uh sat right seat with uh michael scabuto oh yeah that's right.
Speaker 2:yeah, so we did see you over there, uh, and you probably know my co-host today, erica, of course, hi.
Speaker 5:Kyle, how are?
Speaker 4:you.
Speaker 6:Can't complain Awesome.
Speaker 2:All right. So Dynamic Weapon Solutions says I'm here for Kyle Kraft founder of Kraft Cheese.
Speaker 1:Where do we start?
Speaker 2:Well, I think one of the main things that we want to talk about today and Erica kind of brought it up earlier was there's a bunch of different styles for drivers, right, but there's also a bunch of different styles for navigators too. A lot of guys like to do it by the book, where they're just following notes, making sure everything's perfect. They do a lot of paperwork, they do a lot of homework, right, and then there's a lot of guys that just shoot from the hip.
Speaker 1:They can see things differently. And then there's also guys that are in between. Right, how does your style go? Um, well, I started my racing career with uh, with james dean, and of course that uh, the ballet performance is very old school. Um, so we started off with your basic. You know, super low level, just some icons and sharp corner. You know know 90s, 45s. And then, as I got better, I came on to BJ Baldwin's team and BJ has been using Rally Notes for a while and over the period of like six, seven years, me and him developed a really, really strong language that we both knew very well, language that we both knew very well. And then, as you have kind of gone through some pretty top-level drivers, they all are pretty much on the rally note system at this point, with a couple of variations. You know a little bit different calls, maybe the numbering doesn't exactly mean the same to each driver, but overall it's a rally-style note.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's one of the questions that you were going to ask, erica, right, like what style and what techniques they use?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I think the rally style is growing throughout, but I still think people are trying to find their way. But it also varies with driver, right? Like you said, you and BJ have come up with a thing that works, and I bet it's a little bit different when you go with Amputia or if you go with Scafudo. You're probably more teaching Scafudo how to listen and what to listen versus working together with the ones with more experience, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, so, um. So it just really depends on what the driver is hiring me to do. Um, scafudo's case is a lot of driver lessons and it's a little bit more of the therapist lane. I guess I'll say in that seat when other dudes are just straight business, and then Ampudia, you know, it's all of the above with him.
Speaker 1:Because the highs are very high and the lows are very lows. But to further on the rally notes or any sort of notes, none of that really is the particular thing. You need time with your driver. You need to understand how they react and what is your calling distance and what do they need to know when Everyone's really different on that and it takes time it takes multiple years, in my opinion with a driver to develop a very, very strong relationship. Yes, of course, you can come in off the box and you can do okay, but that driver doesn't even start trusting you and believing in you for three or four races.
Speaker 2:So if we were relating that in a context that's outside of the off-road world, like I can see it, like when I was listening to you talk about like that I can see it like having a new friend right At the new friend, everything's all like you got a new relationship, everything's cool. You don't really know each other yet, you just vibe off each other and then all of a sudden you see the ups and downs and then you're like, oh okay, well, a little bit of this has changed. Maybe I didn't know that person had that personality trait. And then two years down the road, you can read into each other's minds like nobody's business. You know what?
Speaker 2:they're going to say, before they even say it.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and that's the goal in that car. You want to be one person and you know not to discredit the lower classes, but the higher up you get, the more consequential your mistakes become. You can't have that doing 140. You can't, I mean you just you can't do it. So to get in that top level and then to be synced up with your driver, it's many, many years and a lot of criticism both ways. I mean things get very heated in that car. I think I've punched bj a few times. I've certainly unplugged my mic and started, you know I'm not sure that as well.
Speaker 4:Unplugging.
Speaker 1:Let me know when you want to listen right, right, okay, dipshit, you got it speed limiter.
Speaker 2:So what happened to those situations, because I'm actually interested in this, because I feel like this is uh not uncommon, so to speak, right the it's every race for me yeah, well, and not just that, but it's every race for a lot of guys, right, because the, the emotions, the intensity, the adrenaline, like everything that's going on in the car is at a high level, just like what you said, and it's very easy. I mean, imagine having a simple squall or a quarrel with your girlfriend, right, and then all of a sudden you just want to shut it off and you go for a drive, right, you can't get out. You got a 500 more miles to go, like you got to do something.
Speaker 1:And that's what starts to separate you and then elevate you is is your determination to dig deep. You have the same goal and that's to cross the finish line and hopefully cross it first.
Speaker 4:Absolutely and it it doesn't come easy.
Speaker 3:I mean when the driver's upset they can throw away the car.
Speaker 1:When the navigator misses a call, you can throw away the car and you both are in there for the same purpose and it's a passion and, unfortunately, when you're passionate about things, your emotions tend to elevate.
Speaker 4:And you just got to dig deep. But there's no better feeling than vibing with your driver and everything clicking along. That's such a feeling that if you're not with a driver and that's not happening, you're not having a good time or you're just not flowing so well.
Speaker 1:A thousand percent. I mean my goal is to uh, to call a note. It's roughly about three and a half seconds before this is going to happen, depending on speed and when you can sync note after note after note and the driver's you feel like he's driving off of your exact call. I mean, that's bliss for us navigators is making sure we're lined up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's when you know you're doing your job, your driver's clicking and you're just going to have a good day 100 dude, I've never even thought of it like that and like that type of flow like it.
Speaker 2:It almost gives me the goosebumps right now just thinking about it, because it's almost like it's just natural, like everything's just moving, like all in one it's a feeling too.
Speaker 4:You feel it all in your butt, which is kind of weird. Right, you have that relationship with your driver, and kyle can probably vouch that when you have that relationship with your driver, you know everything they need. They don't have to say and you just figure it out on the fly.
Speaker 1:I thought that's a hundred percent and uh, you just coach them through the highs and you coach them through the lows and you keep your head down and do your job yeah, west leffler actually just said the same thing.
Speaker 2:He said if you're going fast and your driver is not talking and you are hitting all your marks and you know you're in the zone and wes knows he's a very good navigator as well yeah, it's kind of cool to see, like, because I don't even think about that stuff.
Speaker 2:Right, like I'm not, I haven't done this stuff that you guys have done, so it's really cool to hear you guys say that when, when you guys have that happen, does it mean that there's more of an opportunity or less of an opportunity for stuff to go wrong?
Speaker 4:kind of just depends if your driver gets, because I guess are you too comfortable, or no?
Speaker 1:there's really nothing you can do to describe how that is. I mean, you're operating at a very high level. Mistakes happen with the slightest miscalculation, but it's a very controlled environment as well. I really don't know how to explain it other than, yes, you can go both ways very easily, and you've got to be on it. You've got to have great pre-run notes and you got to be on it. You got to have, you know, great pre-run notes. Um, you got to know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:you got to believe in each other and don't miss yeah, totally well, can you tell us one time that you guys didn't miss, like that? You guys were in sync, maybe you remember, with one of your other uh drivers, like that. You guys were just fully in the zone. You came across the line first, like one of the times that you just had your best navigation my there's, there's quite a few.
Speaker 1:I would say that I've had some pretty high days, but uh, the best because I thought it was my worst was winning san felipe back in March or April. I guess it was tough. It really took a lot out of me. Alan was really driving hard. The speed we were going was not easy on your body. You know. Having Toby Price 30 seconds behind you as you were already going too fast is pretty scary, and just knowing it was time to turn the brain off and stay on work I'm not looking at alarms.
Speaker 1:I'm not looking at temperatures and the sun comes up. We're not talking about anything, but what's going to kill us and uh and getting through that was uh was probably my best memory yeah, that's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2:Have you had races like that too, and I? In fact I talked to kyle about this too, like before, and he was telling me he's like, dude, we were going so fast. He's like I wanted to tell alan just to stop and pull over. He's like I was getting so like, it was so crazy so yeah, you get it.
Speaker 4:I don't obviously go trophy truck speed, I'm more on a spec truck, so going 140, 150 is a huge difference. Um, but I will say, when you're on the hunt there's a small discussion that's like we're going and we're going now and don't look back and it's, you get tunnel vision. You hope that your guys, you know your notes are all flowy and you're ready and that's all you can do. But there's a small discussion, usually before you start pushing that hard either up a number, down a number, whatever you know.
Speaker 2:What's that conversation like? How do you communicate that to the driver, Carl?
Speaker 1:Well, alan, the team I'm on now is a little different. I feel really confident in every part of this team, as where before I kind of ran the entire show, so I don't have to lean on my instincts as much. I don't have a team that we can collectively talk about, but generally you have a plan before the race that goes right out the window as soon as the flag drops and then, like for me, I will tell that driver a few times after they've missed probably two or three calls that aren't threatening to anything. Hey, how's your pace?
Speaker 1:Because I don't want to tell him to slow down. Then it's in his head and then that's when you make more mistakes. I want him to think how am I driving right now? So that will generally work, but then there's other times. Like you know, getting that call thatby was 30 seconds off of us, with 60 miles left at san felipe let's go it's either gonna hold together or it's not.
Speaker 1:And uh, you just, you cannot miss, you cannot make a mistake. You have tunnel vision. I didn't look up, I didn't even know where we were at the last 60 miles. It was right there. I'm not missing that's so gnarly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I've, and correct me if I'm wrong. But one thing that I've noticed is if a driver's kind of a little out of control, instead of being like you're driving like an idiot, you need to slow down. I like to maybe just drop it down a number for a couple corners, Then they feel the reel in and they're a little more planted, and then off we go you cannot.
Speaker 1:then they feel the real in and they're a little more planted, and then off we go without.
Speaker 4:You cannot be letting out these secrets, Erica, I know, but I do teach people this stuff, but it's just, you know, it's just a way to get under control again without being like you're an idiot. You need to slow down Now. They're frustrated.
Speaker 1:That's very true.
Speaker 1:I will typically do that like if we've got a right one caution, times 100, overrides or something that I've seen him miss a couple times, or he's a little off on. That's when I start to adjust numbers going forward. If they keep missing the same call, then I realize, a, either we didn't pre-run hard enough to understand this or, b, they're just not getting it. So that's when I typically will do that. But as far as telling him to slow down, no, I won't do that. I'll make him either think about it or, after you've done something very stupid multiple times and I'm very angry, you're going to get, you know, one of these to the chest. And hey, get this thing together, dude, or I'll just go fucking home. I don't know the language, I don't need it right. We're here to win. We're here. We put in all this effort, get it together.
Speaker 2:But that's the way to do it right. You've got to have accountability. Everybody has accountability the guy's in the truck, the period.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's the mentality I take into it. This isn't a free ride. This isn't just something I love. I need to win and I want my driver to have that same passion as I do yeah, that's pretty crazy, man, just to think about it and like.
Speaker 2:All of this leads up to crossing the finish line right. And when you cross the finish line, it doesn't matter what happened for the last 12 hours, 8 hours, 24 hours, whatever it is, it matters what just happened at the finish line right. And usually if you execute everything well, then obviously you come home with a good finish, like to me, that seems like it's just as important to you as it is for the entire team it has to be.
Speaker 1:You can't just go out there and want to do this for social media or you know. Whatever kind of clout you're trying to chase, or this is just something fun. You got to it and that's the only way to approach this and come out safely and cross the finish line.
Speaker 2:So we had a couple of questions that were going to be general for most everybody that we're going to ask, and what are two of the most important things as a navigator that you can recommend and I mostly mean this for people that look up to you or want to be a professional navigator at some point in their life?
Speaker 1:um two of the most important things, or two tips for them um, yeah, you can do either one.
Speaker 2:I would say one of the most, one of the most important things that you have to rely on yourself in your brain for every race, and then one of the most best tips that you can give to all the new guys so I would say number one has to be criticism.
Speaker 1:You have to be able to critique yourself and um, you know it's sometimes you can fix these things yourself and if you're having a bad day or you're missing, being able to adjust that in your own head without making a big deal about it, that's's probably number one. As far as tips go time, you need time, don't think it's going to come in one race.
Speaker 1:Don't think it's going to come in one year. It's time, and that will help you elevate to the next level and soon enough you and your driver will be synced up and it's easy from there.
Speaker 2:So Drew Beckera I don't know how to pronounce it Beckera. So Drew Becerra, I don't know how to pronounce it Becerra. Yeah, he said any advice on how to become a navigator. Well, kyle just said it and I had some suggestions too, because I've had people ask me this question before and I don't know any of the technical skills to be a navigator. I'm not a navigator, but I know that if I was going to try, I would take some of the classes that Erica offers. Ask Kyle, ask the people at the races, go to the questions. Yeah, just ask questions. But you can also do simple things like, instead of being the driver out of the dunes, sit in the passenger seat, get a little ipad out, put the navigation uh controls on it and look at it, engage it and you know, zoom in, zoom out, mark your spots, do all these little things that can make you a better navigator. Could you guys expand on that?
Speaker 4:yeah, for sure one one thousand percent.
Speaker 1:I mean, um, james dean brought me on when I knew absolutely nothing and it was as simple as he needed help out of shop. Come help prep the car and then I got the spot. Um other ways I I recommend for people is go buy a race suit, go buy all your gear and have it get on a race team and have it be there every race with yourself. You never know what's going to happen. One day you might get thrown in that seat.
Speaker 1:And maybe that driver ends up liking you or sees potential. There's a bunch of ways, but get on a team and be able to help. That's your first step period.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that. Do you have any more questions for Kyle? Kyle, I'd like to see if we could maybe spend a little bit more time with you. I know we're doing a bunch of different guys tonight, but maybe we could spend a little bit more time with you and you could give us more experience and give us like. I don't know story time with Kyle.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean Perfect, I'm in.
Speaker 2:So do you have any more questions before America? No, go for it. All right, we're going to get Trevor Ellingham on here in just a sec. Kyle, thank you very much for taking the time out of your day. I know you're a busy guy. You spread a lot of love. Man, we'll see you at the races, thank you guys.
Speaker 4:Thank you, Kyle Bye.
Speaker 2:Todd LeDuc just joined us. All right, let's get Trevor Ellingham on here. Trevor. Trevor. All right, it's really cool to see the other side of it. You know what I mean. I know what it feels like to be a racer and I know what it feels like for. Is it asking him there? We go and I know what it feels like to hold the steering wheel, but I never had enough patience to be a navigator, so listening to what you guys talk about it's such a special skill.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a lot of trust. It's a lot of trust but, as Kyle just hit, it's also a lot of you know relationship meaning. It's a pretty intimate relationship. You're trusting each other. All you have is each other. All you have is each other. You have to learn everything about each other.
Speaker 2:You can't hide from anything 100, you're just kind of there well, speaking of trust, there's a lot of people that trust our next guest. I know I do. I'd like to have him in the passenger seat with me. Trevor ellingham. What's up, man? How are you good? How are you guys doing? Awesome, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. Where are you at?
Speaker 7:uh, I'm sitting on one of my bills on my shop right now oh right, on what kind of better backdrop than, uh, just a messy shop what kind of build is it? Well, it's a luxury prerunner.
Speaker 2:Oh, right on man, have you had to navigate in a luxury prerunner before? I have, I have how is that air conditioning?
Speaker 4:it's so nice you're not even dirty, unless you hit a silt section and there's a crack in the cab oh you're kind of destroyed because it doesn't leave either wes leffler says t-donk for president.
Speaker 2:Jason montez says it looks like you have an android trevor brand new iphone. I don't know what's up shitty connection in that's all right, man, hey. So, um, give us a little bit of a background. How long have you been doing navigation?
Speaker 7:I started about 12 years ago I started riding with Travis Bozzano he's the first one that really gave me a shot and racing in his 7200 truck and then into the 6200.
Speaker 2:Did you like the seven trucks?
Speaker 7:Yeah, it was funny that thing ripped. It was a nascar v6, you know it was. It was fast for for the, for the class, and it was a good way to get in and not uh. The suspension worked really well. It's pretty much unlimited. I think it was uh rules on the width of the truck, but overall it was almost like a spec truck with a v6 yeah, that's super cool, man.
Speaker 2:And when, uh, when you got into that truck, did you know that you were going to pursue, um, I don't want to say a career, but pursue being a navigator and going to the races and keeping in the off-road world.
Speaker 7:I mean I was. I was hoping so. I've been around off-road my whole life. I went to uh the main 405 days after I was born watch my dad race. So it's about as in my blood as they can get and being how uh my bank account is set up, it doesn't lend me to be in the other seat so well, so this is the best way to do it.
Speaker 2:That's good man, but you've gotten to be able to ride with some pretty awesome people. So a couple of guys that you've ridden with that I know obviously the Terrible Herbs team. You've ridden with householders, a bunch of different people, the way that Erica and Kyle were talking. You really have to have a good relationship with the people that you're working with.
Speaker 7:Oh for sure, that's everything. I've had a couple of rides where it was a little rough. No trust there. Our job is not only to try to go as fast as we can, but try and keep us both safe.
Speaker 4:And the driver's just flat out not listening and it doesn't work out so well. Yeah, the trust comes from both sides. You have to trust your driver as well to do a good job, right.
Speaker 7:Yeah, I mean we're over there. There's not a whole lot besides trying to point them the right direction, we have control. So in other aspects of my life like I don't like roller coasters because I don't have control of the speed, but for some reason racing trophy trucks is okay- he's got that five point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you've also got somebody with a heavy right foot. When you guys are talking about this stuff, it makes me look back through my head about some people that I've talked to. You know, friends of the show. I've talked to us and said you know how do I get involved in off-road? And then you say work on a team, get in a co-driver seat, then you become a driver and you can, you know, find resources to do it, and I've seen a bunch of people try to make those those leaps and bounds right.
Speaker 2:I've seen people get in the navigator's seat and there's a lot of guys that only last one race or one segment of a race, right, but they don't actually go any further than that. But I don't necessarily always think it's because of the navigator, I think it's because of the whole picture, right, because the people that are, let's just say, as a UTV team, as an example, they don't know what they're looking for. They just see that they didn't win a race. They could put it on the navigator, they could write them, like. There's all kinds of different things and it's pretty heavy to take on all those responsibilities and duties. Have you seen that?
Speaker 7:oh for sure. Just like kyle was saying, oh it's uh, the relationship is everything. And you know, I've there's been times where I've ridden with someone and they're great people, but it's just not another race I want to do with them. But then on the other hand, it's been the same thing, like, oh man, I hope this really worked out well and for whatever reason we didn't drive, so it goes both ways. But with starting out, it's like Kyle was saying too, having your race suit, having everything like being there.
Speaker 7:You know, I was working at collins motorsports when I got the job. Or then I got to ride with uh, with travis and being at the races and helping out and doing everything possible, and just, you know, he saw the dedication and he saw, you know, I had all my own stuff, so I was kind of the right fit at that time. Then we got to be really good friends and thankfully that worked out until he stopped racing for a while. And it's kind of the same with every team I'm with now. It's almost a family bond and it's really cool to see.
Speaker 2:It's kind of crazy to think about that, though, because it's not easy to get in the right seat.
Speaker 4:It's not easy to get in the right seat. It's not easy to get in the right seat, but I also think because they think it's an easy job.
Speaker 7:They think you're sitting there calling rights and lefts and it's going to be so much fun being in the race, but all the all behind the scenes work is is what really makes the difference yeah when.
Speaker 4:when it comes down to like being ready and being prepared, it's not about bringing your snacks in your jacket and hope you don't break. It's about you know are you going to be able to talk your driver off the ledge so that you don't crash? It's about you know, knowing what the truck is capable and pushing your driver to that limit. It's about you know knowing all your temperatures and being able to read them as you're calling notes. And you're not just sitting there and you're not just you know a puppet anymore. It's a full-time job.
Speaker 2:I always tell everybody oh definitely. Sorry, go ahead Trevor, please.
Speaker 7:Like you know, just having the familiarity with the truck, knowing how to work on everything there's so many, so many aspects to it that it it's so, even if you're the best in every game world but you don't know how to do anything mechanical, you're not going to be as useful. As you know, because a lot of the drivers not all, but I'm thankful to have, uh, some really good ones now but for some that show up, I mean, they don't know anything about the truck except barely how to turn it on and go from there where, like, uh, like adam householder, for instance, like he checks his motec data, he builds, he redoes his own shocks, he, you know, he tunes his own shocks, he does everything, he knows every inch of the truck, and which just makes my job even easier, and during the race, because I don't have to, you know, make sure that I'm the only one knowing what needs to be done to the truck or not.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I do think mechanical is a huge part of it. Um, when stuff breaks, you kind of do you ever switch off? Cause that's something that Sarah and I learned early on If you get frustrated, like, put the next teammate in, let me in there, because now you're frustrated, you're making mistakes, you're kind of fumbling a little bit, so we would always switch off. Is that something that you've ever done?
Speaker 7:uh, as far as like, if uh like working on stuff or yeah we're just after that.
Speaker 7:Yeah, like, if that, like uh parker, this year we had a? Uh, an oil pump belt fail and luckily it was a really quick change. Uh, he caught it instantly watching the, you know, out of peripheral he saw the. The alarm flash we caught it instantly didn't hurt the motor. Um, I think it was like a camera fast. It was pretty quick change.
Speaker 7:But adam's under there with tools, I'm grabbing tools, I'm on top, you know, working together on stuff like that to be able to do it and it makes it a lot easier. Um, I've been fortunate enough to have too many uh big instances with uh needing to work on stuff that where we would have to. But you have to kind of take your time. When you'd like. A couple years ago, thor and I got stuck on the silt in a thousand and it was an hour long deal and uh, I tell him you sit there, you stay safe in the truck, let me be worn out. Um, there's no reason for both of us to be worn out. You're the one that has to drive. I'll recoup when we get going again. Um, but it just depends on the driver and what they know about the trucks and how much we can really switch off between working on them well, and so you guys both say that.
Speaker 2:This is one of the things that I told you, I wanted to talk about before trevor was how to make sure that you are at a hundred percent or that you're you don't get your body to a certain level where you're, you're not capable of performing your duties. How do you guys control that? Cause you don't just have to do it for yourself in the car, you have to do it for the driver, like you have to be in sync, you have to know when they need food, you have to remind them to drink, you have to remind them to stay focused. Like there's all kinds of different things that happen, and a lot of it is like what you said preparation, your homework leading up to the race. Like you drink enough water, you get enough electrolytes, all this other shit. Like how do you guys manage all that?
Speaker 7:a lot of. It just takes time to figure out exactly, and especially like in the vehicle, what works for you, what works for erica might not work for me as far as what snacks you can eat or or stuff like that. Like for me and I know a lot of people crustables like uncrustables at the pit stop, it's instant game changer for my mind, keeps me going, especially on the longer races where we have multiple stops and putting the miles in, just uh, the sugars right away, like acting the brain, and then the proteins from the peanut butter. Like it's just Trying different things. Like all usually before races.
Speaker 7:I'm not risking so much at a race. I'll try. I'll try doing different things, like while I'm on the road bike. You know I live in Vegas, so right now I think it was only 108 today, but we've had a little bit warmer weather before this. But being able to be on the road bike, you know you're already gassed your heart rates through the roof and if you can keep something down then most likely you can keep it down in the truck. I have to wear a patch now. The drama me, didn't quite cut it for me, but it's just like everything. It takes trying different things, to figure out exactly what works to keep you going.
Speaker 2:Do you know what your driver usually needs to, so you and you can kind of tell when they're I don't want to say dozing off, but like when they're losing focus yeah, you can.
Speaker 7:You can feel it for sure. Uh, you sense the pace change a little. Um, adam doesn't like to eat so much. He always wonders like when I pull into a pit, I'll drink half a bottle of water and I throw the crucible in my mouth, squish it out to my cheeks so I don't bite my cheeks and I can get out in time. With a 30 to 40 second pit stop, I can talk when I need to. Again he's like how the hell do you eat these things without eating your cheeks? I know that getting that in makes a big difference. Any speed zones, I'll try to give them gel blocks or just little things, just to keep it going constantly. Once you crash it's so hard to get back to that point.
Speaker 4:I usually like, I'm very particular. I like Uncrustables ripped in half, because they usually hand them to you in a wrapper and you're like I have gloves on.
Speaker 7:I'm always like I don't care how dirty your hands are.
Speaker 4:Rip it in half and I'll shove that in my mouth and move on.
Speaker 7:No, exactly, yeah, and I obviously I got I must have a bigger mouth. But I shove the whole thing in and just deal with it and get it out of the way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, or I've been known to ask for a Dr Pepper with a straw, please.
Speaker 2:Oh, dude, that's dialed though, because then you can fit it under your helmet. Are you the one that separates the skills? You only like the green ones or the red?
Speaker 4:ones or whatever Somebody just brought up sourness.
Speaker 7:Some of the longer races where I know we'll have a speed zone, I'll take the same thing. I'll try to take a soda For me it's Mountain Dew, something under the bottle I can keep in the truck until the next speed zone. That way I can get it down and just help you with the sugar levels and everything and, uh, obviously, all the even sitting there we're still sweating and using so much energy just fighting because we're trying to be relaxed. But you're still. You know we don't know exactly when the brakes are going to hit. We know a good idea and the gas. You just have to be relaxed and go with it. But it's still. It's. It's draining in the passenger seat. Um, I've been in both, thankfully, and the.
Speaker 2:It's different kinds of physical yeah, I was going to say a lot of people don't understand how much more uh leverage you have when you're just barely even if you're holding onto the steering wheel loosely, like you're supporting yourself so much more than you are when you're just sitting there.
Speaker 7:Oh, for sure. Well, just like you know, not many kids not to do it nowadays. But driving a five speed or six feet on the street, you can be driving really smooth, but you still see your passenger moving a little bit, just because they're not knowing the exact second you're going to lift, push the clutch or hit the brake or whatever so saying you know, we just have to be over there. If you fight it, you're just gonna wear yourself out more and we just have to be over there. If you fight it, you're just going to wear yourself out more and you just got to be as relaxed. But it's still draining.
Speaker 2:How can you tell if the driver's getting fatigued, like when he's behind the wheel?
Speaker 4:You can hear it in the throttle usually. Give me an example, go ahead, trevor. This is your segment. I'm on here, all day.
Speaker 7:Yeah, the pace change is usually like, oh, they weren't quite aggressive on this or that, and you know, there's always, you know, maybe just taking a breather, so see how long that lasts. Then I'll ask hey, you doing all right, you know, what do we got to do? Or is there anything we have to do with that? I'm lucky with Adam. I don't never have to. Uh, I'm never like, hey, you need to slow down, like his pace, everything if he's doing something is for a reason. And uh, we've man, like we drive really well, um, it's been, it's really refreshing to to do that.
Speaker 7:And know someone with that much experience like there's a reason he's slowing down to see this section, like he might he might feel something in the truck that I didn't feel, that he's trying to be cautious over, and vice versa, if I feel something, I usually let him know. But pace wise. Um, unless it's a younger ride, like with thor, every once in a great while he might be a little rambunctious. Just, uh, being a younger gohan guy and I'll be, hey, like, let's, uh, let's back it down just a little bit here. And uh, you know, wait till we get to a section where we can especially like the longer races like the thousand or something like that, where the pace just these trucks just won't last at an all-out pace for that long.
Speaker 7:Um, just back it down a little bit. Let's try to save the tires so we have as fresh a tire as possible for the silt section. Or hey, you know, we got these guys got a thousand miles. After this we need to make sure we have all the lights on the trucks instead of just bashing through all the trees. We there's just a lot of different things like that, uh, to try to reign them in a little. But at the same time and I think we have a good understanding that where they know not to take it a negative way, it's positive criticism and then, whenever they're doing anything right, constant you know constant appraise whenever possible, like oh, that was sick, or just constant little things. And you know not that we need to hype each other up usually, but who doesn't like a little bit of positive reinforcement, you know, especially on long days?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally Well, even if you're not a racer and you're listening to the show, like we all have that time. We're at the dunes and we were just like sitting in the passenger seat with our friend and they just hit this corner and you're like damn, how did you do that, dude? That was so sick, like I was sick.
Speaker 7:Could we do it?
Speaker 2:again, like because you just feel that same thing and I can see like what kyle said and what you guys are saying, like if you can get on a level where you're knocking that out like in a flow and you're going through whatever the trees, you're going through whoops, whatever it is, and you just got this rhythm, like that's got to feel so good flow is a huge factor to knowing your driver's comfortable and listening and that you've done your homework, um.
Speaker 4:but the biggest thing I think as a navigator is yeah, we're, we're kind of watching where we're going a little bit. We know where we are based on the GPS for the most part, but you feel and I've said it a little bit with Kyle on you feel everything in your butt. It's such a weird thing, but there's times where you come around a corner and I'm like, wow, you really, you know you railed that a little bit better. Or, hey, you double pedaled over that and you kept it, you know, sucked down a little scrub, um.
Speaker 4:and you feel everything, and so usually there's a little comment about like hey, nice double pedal and they're like you felt that.
Speaker 7:You're like heck, yeah, I feel everything yes, yeah, by being able to feel that, like being fortunate to ride with who I've ridden with over the years, I've learned so much like I would never claim to be any kind of driver at all like I. I'm too afraid of you know what a tire if I thought someone's tired, like replacing that. You know just the money aspect of it, but overall the uh just picking up with different styles of drivers and then this guy's really fast, that guy's really fast, but they do different. They have a different styles of drivers and then this guy's really fast with, that guy's really fast, but they do different. They have a different way of being fast and trying to pick all that stuff up and and pass along to some of the newer guys that you end up, you know, riding with uh in different ways. So, yeah, the, the feel of your butt it's. It's pretty crazy how much we feel with those trucks. There's so much going on constantly.
Speaker 2:Yeah there really is. Alright, we're going to get Jason Montez on here, trevor, but I did want you to ask Erica one question and I'd like her to reply we have this new audio device. I want her to reply, and then we're going to see what happens.
Speaker 7:So go ahead and ask her any question that you want buddy on average, how many people do I send to your navigation school all the year?
Speaker 7:probably a good five to ten perfect dude these voices are so, and I always appreciate it yeah, I went to her school when I was in between rides just to make sure I was staying fresh on the g GPS and seeing what else I can learn. There's always more at the 500, a couple you know. A couple of months ago she showed me a couple more things that I I wish I would have known a lot long time ago. But it's rad having a good community and then having someone that knows the GPS so well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually this is a good time. Why don't you do a little plug for Waypoint Nav so that you can tell people how to go on there and learn a little bit about navigation and the stuff that we're talking about right now?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I have a navigation school, mostly Lowrance-based. I'm working on a Garmin one, but I break down the GPS and try to make it easy to use, a little bit memorable. I make fun of myself because I've made so many mistakes and that's kind of how people learn. So I'm there to kind of help you learn what not to do, how to get to this part, maybe a couple of shortcuts, like I just taught Trevor, and then I usually try to make myself available for people that have questions after they've taken it. I also have a level two, that's more notes, writing and editing and all those things. So feel free to reach out if you guys have any questions uh, waypoint nav off road.
Speaker 2:There you go, waypoint nav w-a-y-p-o-i-n-t and then n-a-v-e, off road all right, n-a-v-e.
Speaker 4:What did I say? N-a-v-e, oh n-a-v-road, all right, nav, nav. What did I say?
Speaker 2:nav, oh nav all right, we'll see you later, trevor. Thanks for joining us, dude thanks.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sure, all right, we're gonna get jason montez on here real quick, another guy that rides with the herps boys. Uh, jason's been uh a co-driver for a while and you know what's cool, like one of the things that I think we'll talk to jason a little bit about is, uh, we'll ask him a little bit about the different vehicles and stuff. So, uh, jason montez, you've ridden in trophy trucks, utvs trucks, buggies, all that stuff. What's going on, dude? How you been, what's up guys?
Speaker 8:how's it going, trevor?
Speaker 4:what's up georgie hi erica hi, how are you guys, trevor?
Speaker 2:all you gotta do is just put your finger over it and then the X comes up. There you go.
Speaker 4:So it's fun to see these guys' face on here, because I'm new to the Herps team as of the 500. Yep, I've known a lot of these guys before I jumped on there, but it's fun to work with them up close and personal, see them every day. We kind of compare lines and notes and work with each other.
Speaker 2:Actually, that's a good thing to ask, jason. So, like, when you have a big team right and you have, let's just say, three or four co-drivers that are going to be around you all weekend, do you guys like work together on stuff, or does everybody kind of stay in their own corner?
Speaker 8:Yeah, we do Like throughout the day when we're pre-running stuff, especially in Baja, everyone kind of does their own thing. But then when we kind of gather up together for dinner back at camp or whatever we do, we try to share notes and shortcuts and things that we know or that we've learned throughout the day to kind of help everybody else. Because you know, like at the end of the day we all have the same goal. We all want to be safe and we all want to get to the finish line and have an advantage. And if there's an advantage that one of us knows, we uh we all kind of chime in to share. You know different little things that we can that can help us out because teamwork makes it work.
Speaker 8:Yeah, so we're all a team and we're all together at camp and stuff like that, but as soon as we start racing, we're all on our own, each person and each driver in their truck. You're out on a journey by yourself, so you're not really like besides some of the uh, some of the the chatter you get on the msat, everyone's kind of on their own, doing their own thing, and they each have their appropriated chase trucks and, and you know, maybe you have the heli fall on you or something, but, um, for safety, but yeah, everyone's kind of out on their own.
Speaker 2:So we try to do, uh, all the homework and share the knowledge, um, beforehand so when you've been uh, you know doing this for a long time, when you have a team environment compared to a single racer or effort like, how does it differ?
Speaker 4:So this was actually the first time that I've been with a team where there's where it's kind of the same team. I've been on teams where there's a bunch of different trucks but we're not really on the same team. So the difference is like you kind of get to validate that you know what I'm doing is right, or maybe I want to check this section a little bit more, or you know and learn from everything. Like I practiced my tire changes, I tried different things but everyone was there to kind of show me how they do it and I definitely took things away from it yeah, that probably makes you learn a lot right because it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Because it's real life experience, like right in the palm of your hands. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:And Jason, you have had the same thing too. Where you go. Well, I'll give a little bit of background for anybody that hasn't seen you on the show or knows you in person. Obviously, you work with the Terrible Herbs Motorsports crew. You do a lot of building stuff in the shop. You also are at the races, sitting in the passenger seat of well any numerous trucks, usually the 19 truck, and then you also help out Joe Tirana in a UTV. So you have a lot of different sprinkle yourself out there because you want to be at the races, right, but there's a lot of different things that happen. Each individual, one of those pieces takes a different skill set. Can you explain a little bit of that? How about this? A simple question the difference between co-dogging in the 19 trophy truck and the difference of co-dogging in a Can-Am UTV.
Speaker 2:It's a loaded question.
Speaker 8:It's all relative really. It's, yeah, it's, it's. It's all relative really, because, uh, it's funny, uh, jeremy Kager just chimed in and, uh, he had a trophy light that I used to race in and it's all relative, right. So if you're racing with trophy trucks, they're blowing by you when you're in a trophy light, but then when you're door to door with another trophy light, it's, it's the most competitive thing, and that's the same thing with the side-by-sides is there could be, you know, you could be in any class of the race, but they all have their competitiveness and that's what makes you, you know, thrive as a racer. It doesn't matter what you're in fast, slow, you're going to go as fast as you can in that class and in that car. And it's like we were talking about the 500, the. You can in that class and in that car. We were talking about the 500.
Speaker 8:The difference between the 6100 and the Trophy Truck is a huge difference, even though it's the same identical truck. Besides the motor. It's all relative to the class really. You can be the fastest in any of the classes, but you're going to have just as much competition in the class. But it is. It's like, uh, it's like, how do I put it? It's like walking a chihuahua versus trying to wrangle two pitbulls kind of deal it's a little.
Speaker 8:It's a, it's a pace change. Um, you have to be very observant because the things that obstacles and terrain in the trophy truck are like triple danger in the side by side, to where the speed is all relative and some of the stuff doesn't affect you. It's like it's like a dirt bike, like the side by side is smaller, so the road gets bigger. Versus the trophy truck and some of the same roads you might be clipping the trees and bushes on both sides wearing the can-am. You can. You can bob and weave and and it's not uh, it's not uh.
Speaker 2:Well, it's not as challenging to get through the terrain I'll give our our non-racer friends that watch the dirt life show a little bit of an example. So I took my dad for a ride in a polaris pro r because we just have a play car for Polaris Pro R and he was used to a Razor 800 or a 900 or even a Yamaha Rhino. And we're going up to these little washouts and they're probably only a foot deep, they're no big deal, like I'm just going to blip over them, like in the Pro R, and he grabs those shit bars and says slow the fuck down, because he's ready to hit it, because his mindset thinks that it's a different vehicle and he thinks we're gonna like wad it up right and he goes over and he goes, oh okay, this car does it different. So I see exactly what you're saying and I think they could probably relate in something like that yeah and it's and it's true with um like the.
Speaker 8:The biggest difference that I think joe saw is when he got out of the side by side and he came to a test session and he drove the truck and he's like this is unbelievable. He's like this the, the spec truck, goes 90 through these bumps at the mint and we're going 50, 60 miles an hour, slamming the skid plate right on the edge of like trying to get on top of it and hurting the car because that one oh shit moment where the bump is like an to get on top of it and hurting the car because that one oh shit moment where the bump is like an extra five feet further than the next one, that could really hurt you. And that's where you have to kind of reel it back and say okay, look, this isn't a trophy truck, like, like, we're going fast enough, we just got to keep the car together is that easy for you to manage, like, uh, you know, switching those seats and being able to do it?
Speaker 2:because there was actually I thought there was a race that we saw you get out of one car and get into another car within a matter of, I don't even know, 15 minutes, half an hour uh, I did that with.
Speaker 8:I did that with, uh, brett serapis, probably four or five years back. I was driving the 6100 and then I got out and then I jumped in to ride with him at we were at Laughlin. Yeah, I think that it was something and I literally ran. I literally ran from there and ran to another truck, but I can't remember. I'm sure I've done it a few times.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was just like to me. It was like how does his brain switch so quickly?
Speaker 8:Get was like how, how does his brain switch so quickly? Get ahead of yourself a little bit maybe. Well, a lot of fit is the experience like for me. I can write, I can pre-run in the can-am and write notes for the trophy truck because I know the capability of the trophy truck so it's easy for me to gauge the distance and the speed and like the obstacle and stuff.
Speaker 8:I know it's harder than that was a learned skill from going back and forth from racing the can-am to the trophy truck because, uh, a lot of the notes from the trophy truck will transfer, or a lot of from the can-am will transfer to the trophy truck and vice versa. But then there's the little differences of the obstacles to where if you have a danger 1-2-3, you can change the scale in the trophy truck because the Danger 1-2 in the Can-Am is a 1 in the trophy truck, where you don't even think about it, you don't even look or call the note, you just drive right through it because you're blasting through stuff so much faster. So a lot of that just comes with time pre-running in Can-Am, so much in Mexico and just learning it and pre-running in the States and the trucks and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Literally seat time, like Erica was talking about, like you can literally feel it in your butt and you're so like, you're so into it that you could pretty much know exactly what it's going to feel like in your butt in the different car.
Speaker 4:Have you ever gone into the can am, though, and been way ahead of yourself Like, oh, keep going.
Speaker 8:The corner will be up there. Yeah, it's like hey, it's up there in half a mile and in the trophy truck doing $1.40, $1.50. You're a little late. You're late, you're already past it. You blew the turn. But in the K&M it's like okay, it's still coming and you're just waiting for it.
Speaker 4:You look at your watch. I remember that V sometimes when you're switching back and forth, mostly in the UTV, because you're you're so ready and you just want to get going, and so you call that corner and you're like, nevermind, keep going.
Speaker 8:Yeah, it's like it's. I do find myself sometimes calling them too early, but in stuff that I've memorized on, like the courses where we just do laps, like the last few years I've raced the um, the uh, the mid 400 on friday and saturday and it's like I don't even look at the gps. Like I've been out there so much. We test out there, um, and joe lives out there and it's not. It's just like when I get in with tim I'm just so spent from doing 20 laps. You know already out there pre-running and racing or whatever testing that it's just muscle memory at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can totally see what that like, and you were saying too, what was the question that you had? Oh, what style notes does he use, or what style? Yeah, I was just going to ask every nav like what style do you he use?
Speaker 4:or what style? Yeah, I was just gonna ask every nav like what style do you use? Because it's different, like kyle I kind of touched on it could be different from driver to driver, but like what's your preferred style?
Speaker 8:uh, like, like with ryan earlier days, uh, we would do pace notes and that's what he liked, because that's what he was used to and it would keep him focused. Um, I, I take a, a crude version of that for for tim, just because he's so vetted and he's so experienced that he's he's been through so many miles that he just needs a, he just needs a reminder kind of deal. You know, we pre-run so much too. We've been, we've been, you know, at the baja races we do six, seven laps of our section, something like that, and and it's just like, like I said, it just it gets repetitive, but that's so important because there's less to worry about, right.
Speaker 8:So a lot of people that don't get to pre-run or don't pre-run or maybe do it, see it one or two times that aren't as familiar with like, say baja, there's the fear of the unknown and if we and we're so experienced in baja, as you saw, like we love to pre-run, we live to pre-run there, right it, that takes one of the factors out, especially Right it, that takes one of the factors out, especially there's still a safety factor and the risk involved during the race. But as far as the safety of the unknown. That usually doesn't become a factor just because we spend so much time down there and we do so much of it that it's just like you're driving to work every day, like come race day. It's like you don't look at the gps.
Speaker 2:You know it so well, you're worried about, you know, spectators and, uh, the competition yeah, when you drive into the dust, when you've done all the homework, the test is easy, right?
Speaker 4:yeah, sometimes the test is easy sometimes I say, like the gps is a good verification that that crest left is a crest left right, or that dip is something we need to slow up for, or we can just check out and go. So, it's a great verification and that's why I like to have detailed notes to verify what's coming is what we think it is.
Speaker 2:That actually made me think of kind of a different, a whole different subject change. If you want to finish your thought, jason, go ahead, but I have a whole different.
Speaker 8:Oh no, and I was just going to add that's not to say that I don't use the GPS. I still use it 100% of the time, even though I know where I'm going. Because, like you said, it's just a verification and it just reaffirms that you are going the right way or that you did hit the VCPs, and it just instills confidence.
Speaker 4:VCPs are a big one these days. There's been a lot of missed ones. Do you have a way that you don't miss VCPs? Do you have a strategy?
Speaker 8:I'm not going to jinx myself, because I've never been in that situation.
Speaker 2:I'm with you on that. What's that? You just pre-run.
Speaker 8:What's that? You just pre-run. Like Tim and I always say, stick to the yellow brick road. We use our lines where we have good lines and where we can make passes, but the best way is to stick to the yellow brick road.
Speaker 4:Yeah, do you give yourself a little bit of variation, Because you know the GPS kind of has 50 feet of wonder, because the GPS kind of has 50 feet of wander For the most part.
Speaker 8:when it comes to BCPs, we'll make sure we're on course. Yeah, Other than that, it's free game.
Speaker 4:That's fair.
Speaker 2:So you guys kind of got me thinking a little bit about something that I'm like you're not just a navigator in the car, right, You're also a therapist or you're Dr Phil in all day, right. And I always wondered this, because I'm at the starting line a lot of times. I'm at the finish line a lot of times. In between I can't see what you guys are doing, but I can see when I'm standing with you guys at the starting line. Let's just use as an example that you're using all your intuitive brain to gauge what the attitude of the driver is on that day, so that you can adjust your mental capacity to match theirs before you take off on the starting line. Like, how do you even do that? Because that's like reading a, like doctor filling somebody every time you have to get in the car with them.
Speaker 8:It's crazy um, some days are better than others. Most are good. I think usually, um leading up to the race, either the day of or the day before, you kind of have a good vibe on on um, on on the attitude and how things are going to go, depending on where you qualify, where the race is, how long the race is. You know that plays a part. You know you can rely on on on different things, um to kind of help gauge what the vibe is and what where you're going to be needed whether it's a driving coach or you're just calling turns or, like you said, a therapist, it really depends. And then things change throughout the race. So you have to just be able to adjust and, like we always say, adapt and overcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, being intuitive is a pretty good quality. I feel like that's really necessary, not just in the daily life but in the navigator seat.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think we tend to be a lot more intuitive, but that's why it's nice to know your driver. Know you know is something off. What do I need to do to get them out of this funk? You just kind of have to know. If you don't know your driver, necessarily you don't know. If you can push them, you don't know how to get them out of the funk.
Speaker 2:You don't know all the unknown right. It's just kind of like you guys ever had. Um well, let's just ask you, jason, to answer this first have you had a day where there was just all friction, all day?
Speaker 8:no, because I usually, yeah, you either push through it or I mean, you have to look at the good like. We've had races where it's like laughlin day one we got beat and then it's like we can't worry about this because it's it's, we're going for broke. Like we have to. We have to just push through and think the best of things, because you know you, everyone's going to give it their best right and your best has to be just a little bit better.
Speaker 4:Right yeah.
Speaker 2:That's a good point.
Speaker 4:Something at the beginning of the race that I like to do is get a little bit ahead, because it takes drivers sometimes 30, 40 miles to get settled in. Um, so that's usually a discussion I have with a new driver, like when I race with Ryan Millen at the 500, I said, hey, how long does it take you to get settled?
Speaker 4:He's like I'm a rally driver, I'm immediate, I'm like, yeah, you know where other drivers kind of get ahead of it, so that if they're Other drivers kind of get ahead of it, so that if they're, it gives them time to maybe slow down a little before the corner where they're not ready. You know, like it just kind of slows it down for them to get settled and then, once it starts to click, you kind of pick it up and get rolling.
Speaker 2:So you have to just like feel them out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. There's times where you just have to kind of all right, here we go. What are you feeling? Are you ready?
Speaker 8:yeah, yeah, and I think it varies. Like when I race with ryan, like he said he's a, he's a go-getter, like he's used to qualify. He did very well qualifying and I and I I tell him like, look, if you don't go, someone else will so get. So get on the pipe. And he was always. He was always ready to. Just as soon as we started qualifying or the race, he would, he could switch it on, just like that. You know, and other people they have, they need a little bit more time. You know, tim likes to get settled in and he'll get 15, 20 miles under his belt and he's still running a good pace. But then he's like I, I feel the pace pick up and I start feeding him more information and it just instills confidence. I'm like, okay, you ready. He's like I'm here, let's go. Then I know it's game on and we're going.
Speaker 2:Dude, that's super cool, I bet you when he feels that he's like yeah, let's go. He's just getting ready to rip.
Speaker 8:Most of the time he never gets amped up. Really, he's uh, we, we stay, we have like a very good relationship in the car and there's there's a ton of trust and, um, we never really get worked up and, unless you know, we get frustrated like being stuck behind someone, um, like the, the san felipe footage. You know, we, we, uh, we, uh, we kind of messed up a little bit in qualifying and got towards the back of the pack and we're like man, we're going to, we're going to have to pick off like 10 of these guys. So we're in like our, our, like sweet spot of where we should be and it was.
Speaker 8:It was frustrating, you know, just the thick dust and trying not to crash and then just giving her hell when we had a chance to. And you know it's just you, gotta, you kind of gotta gate, gotta gauge. It's like a time and place kind of thing, like we switch it up. You turn it up when you need to and then you run smart and you stick to your notes because everyone knows like as soon as you catch someone or as soon as you're, you're getting caught, like everyone sees red and you throw it out the window and that's where you know, we stay level-headed and we're like okay, we gotta be smart about this so that's actually a really good topic that I think we should bring up.
Speaker 2:Uh, for like to close out your segment, is how do you do that, like, how do you trip and fall and then get back up again? Because those are very difficult things to do, because let's just say, for whatever reason, you get a flat tire and then it's like, okay, well, fuck, I got to catch up and then you just pin it and all of a sudden you, I don't know, you get off course and you get lost and you got to come back on. Whatever the situation is Race brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. How do you recover, like from?
Speaker 4:race break, or or even more. So how do you guys?
Speaker 8:fix the driver to recover, they get to sit there. Yeah, yeah, they get they, but they sit there running so high no yeah, we're, I usually.
Speaker 8:We usually don't get emotional, like I try to, I try to. I try to we keep it cool. And even if something happens, it's just like, yeah, that's kind of racing. But you know you can't let those things set you back mentally, because then that's when it starts to affect your racing. Like, if it's a tire, no big deal.
Speaker 8:But, like a few years ago with the 500, we left the pit, we got, got a flat. One minute later we get another flat, and then, like 30 miles later, we get another flat. Then it's like, okay, something's going on. We need to like chill, because we're stuck here, we have no tires, until the chase truck got there to save us. So it's like, okay, now we got to be smart about this.
Speaker 8:But you know, you have times where, like you either either crash or something like that, like it happened with us this year at the mint, like it's, it's it was. At first it felt heartbreaking and then, once we assessed the situation, that everything was good, um, you know, we got back going. You know it was a, it was a joe, he collected himself and it's like, okay, dude, we're still fine, we're not hurt the car's in one piece, just keep going and then you know, 20 minutes later, get back to the pit car's. Okay, then the morale's back up and it's like, hey, we're still in the hunt, like we need to get back to where we were mentally dude, it's so crazy.
Speaker 2:I like, I love that you guys can switch it off on and on and off like that. I always told everybody one of the best things about a racer's brain is that they can forget about all of the mistakes that happened in the last corner and just keep moving forward. That's exactly what you explained. Those traits are very difficult to have, so that you guys have those and you guys can push those onto the drivers is pretty amazing.
Speaker 4:Sometimes, yeah, most of the time you can, I'll say I wasn't very good at that at the 500.
Speaker 4:I got pretty frustrated with myself. But then the cool part is, even if you're frustrated and you're like, well, we could have won, but we got a flat, it didn't go well. And then you get out and they're like you're in fifth physically and you're like what I had no idea. We're still in the hunt, you know. So sometimes being able to pit and get those times and or your position, you're like. You're like you said you go to the pit sometimes and it's like, oh, all, right, we're still in it, let's go. You know. So, pit to pit sometimes is how I race, because you just never know what can happen in those miles in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can divide it up. Eat the elephant one bite at a time, right? Yeah. Jason, what's a tip that you would give to the newbies if they want to get in the passenger seat?
Speaker 8:The newbies for the passenger seat. I would say learn from someone that knows that you can just kind of tag along with and learn from right. Kind of start to get your ducks in a row. I think I was saying, or Trevor was saying, get all your gear, you never know what can happen. You know there's there's people that have just been thrown into race cars I have no idea, and then they ended up loving it and then they end up pursuing that you know. So just learn from someone, because that's going to be the biggest help. It's just a transfer of knowledge and it'll help expedite you to where you want to be.
Speaker 2:yeah, totally um. So uh, drew basara just asked if you offer training classes. Eric offers training courses with a lot of the gps stuff. What about you?
Speaker 8:yeah, drew's just been trolling you guys, he's been trolling everybody. I've known Drew for a long time. He's a great mechanic and a very experienced navigator as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he is Drew's, my birthday twin. We're twins, same day, same everything.
Speaker 2:I like that. He's trolling us, though he's probably making our algorithm go up. Keep it up, keep it up drew.
Speaker 8:He has a lot of experience as well. So when's the next time you're gonna get in the seat, jason? Um, we're racing, uh, the baja 400 sweet man.
Speaker 2:Uh, all right, so we'll see you at the baja 400 pretty soon. Dude, you want to throw any shouts out to anybody before you dip?
Speaker 8:Uh, I wanted to shout out to star stream for always keeping us on mute, but the video rolling. I appreciate it, buddy.
Speaker 2:All right, have a good one dude, we'll see you soon, all right, bye guys, bye, yeah. Uh, all right, we're going to get Evan Weller on here too. Uh, I do have like one of those things where you guys were talking about uh people being ready. Uh, flipper was on, uh, and he got in the uh, evan weller right there. I don't know why it's doing that, dude, let us do okay, there we go.
Speaker 2:It changed, the app got updated. Uh, we're like one of the. The honda talons had to get like, the co-driver had to get out and uh, they were like dude, does anybody else bring their suit? Anybody else bring their suit? Like three seconds later, we weren't even looking, he was jumping in. I was like where the hell did that guy come from? Jumped in. They just took off it was so badass.
Speaker 4:It happens all the time when I wasn't racing because of my neck. There were so many opportunities that I was kicking myself for. But it's fun. And then you get to hear how it was to just jump in and go not necessarily mentally ready- yeah, you just get in and go. Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, our next guest. He gets in and goes in a lot of different trucks. I've seen Evan Weller in a few different trucks. He rode with Caden McCachran in one of the geyser trucks. He rides a lot with the honda factory off-road racing team and many other ones. What's up, evan? How are you?
Speaker 6:I'm good man. How are you doing? How you doing, erica?
Speaker 4:hi evan yeah, how you guys he called me to try to get me back racing oh I know we gotta get bader going again. Yeah, he, yeah then you get in the herp truck I know, I know, it was a ride I couldn't pass up um no, that's a great, that's a great deal. I uh a few people I would jump in with, and when ryan millen sent me that I'm like, I guess I'm going racing I know when I know that's a pretty cool deal.
Speaker 6:You gotta do a lot of miles with them, you know, yeah, that'll be really cool. Um, you know it was cool with the whole baiter thing. I, I think that you you kind of brought that whole program together. When they're racing and it's a bummer, they're not racing, you know anymore right now or whatever whatever is happening with their program. But, um, you know he speaks very highly of you as a navigator along with dan fresh.
Speaker 4:So because I still ride with Dan Fresh from time to time in his little rock buggies- yeah, and I think I don't know if you were on here earlier when Kyle and Trevor and I were talking about relationships. You know, it's such a relationship thing with your driver where nothing weird, because I'm a girl with guys all the time but you just get to know each other so well that the relationship happens and then you can figure it out. You know what each other are like. You don't have anything to hide. They know that you're going to get grumpy day three because you're a little bit sore and a little bit tired, and they just show up with snacks sometimes.
Speaker 4:So it's a. Thing.
Speaker 2:Snacks repair relationships.
Speaker 4:Oh, there's these things called. What are they down there? Crankies, and I was calling them Navigator food for a while.
Speaker 2:Is they really called crankies?
Speaker 4:Yeah, they're like these gross chocolate covered things. Have you ever had a cranky oven?
Speaker 6:Never heard of that. No, Usually I just get, like you know, Nutri-Grain bar, a piece of turkey or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say maybe oven never gets cranky.
Speaker 4:I don't know, I used to Try not to. Kellen was a huge. He was somebody that just really taught me a huge influence on my racing. And, uh, one day I showed up and gave him some crankies and I just named it navigator food, so that's hilarious.
Speaker 2:Well, evan, you've been, uh, you do on a daily basis. You guys prep trucks, you guys prep cars, you guys prep utvs, all the different ones, right? Um, erica's been talking about the, the feeling that you have in your butt or the feeling you have in the seat when you're in a car, right, that you know what the driver's doing. You can feel if it's smooth, if you feel the flow is going, if you feel that the flow is off, do you think that you, working with the teams and the vehicles and all that stuff, gives you an advantage? Like, does that help you when you're in the seat?
Speaker 6:I don't know. I think it adds an extra element of stress. You know, if you're prepping the car and it comes out of your shop and it's, you know, a program that you care a lot about when you're in the car and you know trying to race competitively and taking lines that you're not sure about, you know, in the heat of the battle, um, I think that's where you know the extra element of stress. So I don't know, I I I've had some of the most fun racing in cars that I have not prepped. You know, just kind of show up, arrive and ride and, uh, I think it's a blast. You know, I've also been spoiled lately. I've been riding with a lot of really fast guys.
Speaker 6:So, um, I kind of get you know a little bit of everything between the Grabowskis, um, you know Christian Serapis, um, I got like I said the same before I got to ride with Dan fresh, that guy can drive, holy crap. I, uh I did that Baja Nevada race with him two years ago, him and Bader. Um, that was the last race they raced and, uh, I think that was the first race I did with Dan. I think I did like an ultra four thing with him. I can't remember, but I raced in his bomber as well, but anyways, um, that was a blast.
Speaker 6:You know the car wasn't like set up very well and it was kind of slow, but um, it was a blast. You know Dan knows how to throw the truck around and he can like really read terrain. Um, you know where, sometimes you know you get in with someone who you know you don't necessarily go to Mexico with or go ride with and you go test with them Like, oh crap, is this guy, you know, capable of doing this down in Baja? But you can tell when you get into a car with like a Grabowski or a Serapis or you know, caden McCachran, man, oh man, that guy is fast.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I just think you know there's a whole element of stress that's added when you're, when you have some skin in the game, especially from my vantage point, dude, that's super cool. Yeah and uh. One thing I want to say real quick is a couple people have chimed in saying that, uh, the microphones are maybe not coming through our audio equipment into instagram, so sorry about that, guys, if it's not happening, but we have everything working on the mixer, so our main focus is always on for itunes and for the spotify stuff. It looks like is it these? Should I take them out?
Speaker 2:no, I don't think it's you, I think it's us I don't know I think we can hear you just fine and we can see all the stuff working on the for the audio stuff. So, okay, whoever's on instagram, if you need us to speak up, just tell us, el, please. Um, so yeah, yeah, I do think it adds probably a level of stress. But then there's also the other thing where, like you and your guys tightened all the bolts right. Like you, you know that that certain things are going to be well done. I know that with my racing program, I wasn't a navigator, obviously, but I, yeah, I was always able to understand, hey, you know what. I know exactly what that sound is, because I tighten that bolt on the drive shaft or I tighten the differential or whatever so I think there's right yeah.
Speaker 6:It's it's honestly not even in my head about the prep side of it. It's part failure. You know we've we've had a few things this year that we've caught early, and then you know some other things that have taken us out of races that have just been plain, you know. Part failure and that's the biggest thing is like, you know, when you know you don't have control over something and you bolt it in the car and you do your best to, you know dyno it properly, break it in, test it, you know maintain it, and then you know you don't get the miles that you are planning to get out of it. So that's something that is, I think, the biggest stress case that I have is like, oh, is that park going to fail? Or, you know, does that change that we made going to, you know, be something that we want to do?
Speaker 6:To go down to Baja, Cause, like, we're constantly trying different things, Um, we got a lot of cool little programs going on right now between, like Mike Marsal, the spy Brentall truck that we do here, and then, um, the Alexander Ford, um, Jordan pool, Ryan Hancock, their program, where, um, we're very, very honed in on what we're doing prep-wise and trying things and trying to make these trucks faster. And then you go to Proctor's program and he's got all this factory Fox support and then Honda. It's pretty amazing, those guys will come up here and they'll plug their little computers in and Game Boys or whatever. I don't know what they're doing, but somehow the truck always goes faster and faster.
Speaker 2:I got to go up and see evan's shop. Have you ever been up there? I haven't it's super cool up there. They got their own little like area out in simi valley and, uh, it's just like one of those things where you pull off the road and you see just heaven for all oh yeah, yeah, it's like a little light.
Speaker 6:Oh, it's the best yeah, it's, yeah, it's heaven. I I always get, you know, bummed when I'm not here. When I'm gone at a race, I'm like man, I just want to be home in the shop, and then when I'm at the shop, like I just want to go down to Baja and race. So it's always a catch-22.
Speaker 2:Actually, that's actually a really good question. I'm going to go off book here and ask do you like racing in Mexico better or the United States better?
Speaker 6:you have like a personal favorite track kind of thing, like yeah, that's, that's a tough question because the majority of our business is in baja. It's like everyone races mexico now there's not a whole lot of. You know, I wish it was more competitive stateside, I really do. But you know, other than the mint 400 and you know parker was pretty fun this year they had the back-to-back parkers, um. But mexico is where all the is and the majority of my customers that are racing spec truck they want to race in Mexico. So I love Mexico. It just adds, you know, a whole nother element of complexity to it and it's very. You know, if you got the right team, the right guys and they all know what they're doing, it goes very smooth. But it's taken us, you know, in a short period of time. It's taken us a lot of learning to get where we're at and we've only been doing the pit support stuff for two years now with our customers. Before that it was kind of like, hey, we'll prep your truck, pick it up and go down to Bahan and I would go support Honda because I was obviously riding with Proctor back when he was still racing. But now it's kind of grown into where I'm starting to build up our chase assets and our team. We've got our California guys that go Most of them work here at my shop and a few other guys that are in California, and then our Arizona team that meets us down there and with the mixture of the personnel that we were able to put together in the past two years, it's been pretty awesome. And then occasionally, the help with the Grabowskis. They've got 4,000 people on their team, so it's pretty awesome. And then you know, occasionally, the help with the grabowskis. You know they got 4 000 people on their team, so it's it's pretty awesome. If we ever need help, we just, you know, give dusty a call and they can always, or jack jack's kind of the ringleader with all that.
Speaker 6:Um, so, yeah, I don't know it's baja or stateside, I like vegas torino. Vegas torino is probably my favorite race. Everyone always laughs when I say that because, like, oh, vegas torino is boring, but, um, I like, I like vegas torino, I like the terrain up there. I just did that baja nevada race with the eisenhowers and that was fun. Um, the course was not super fun, but being up in, you know, nevada was cool, um those uh course markings yeah, that was not really like ideal for fast racing.
Speaker 6:I can't imagine the first guy going through there, you know, on a trophy truck or spec truck. You know that jake johnson guy sure is fast, but if he was one of the first guys going through some of those trails, I don't. I don't know how you do it. I mean, we're driving up the side of these mountains that are, you're twisting through trees. You know the truck width will barely fit through some sections and you can see that. You know, maybe four people have driven through there, even though a whole train of people. You know nick and I were pretty down on time on the first day.
Speaker 2:We had a fun first day, but yeah, no, it was, it was good well, I pre-ran the whole course before you guys went there, but like six weeks before you guys went there yeah, so I was the one that mowed over all the trees oh thanks as well no, I didn't get to mark the course. I I honestly, like I I relate it because I heard everybody say it was the best, the best course to the worst course. Right, like I heard all of it and I love it too.
Speaker 2:It's rad yeah, and I love it when people say this because it's both right like yeah, this this is where off-road racing started. They gave you a destination and a start point and you just got there however you wanted. Like that's how it started and I get it. Like I wouldn't want to fuck up my car, I wouldn't want to like do anything like run over bushes and stuff. So I don't understand the whole situation, but this is how things evolve.
Speaker 2:This is how things get better, right. Uh, evolve, this is how things get better, right.
Speaker 6:So I give those guys at legacy a lot of credit for being able to do what they did. And it's not even like messing up the trucks, because I think everyone knows what they're getting into. Uh, it's more just like a flowy race course that makes sense. You know, like the thing that stressed nick and I out, and it's not to bash it at all, but like we were in this one section we had just passed this car that was holding us up for a very long time and, um, we're in in the trees and I'm like we're on gps course and all of a sudden the gps course goes way to the right and we're still seeing the ribbons and I'm like nick, just keep going that way, because the course is way over there, but we're not going to go drive through the trees. So I don't know other than that it was a blast. We just, you know it was a little more hairy than we wanted it to be at times, um, um, but you know those guys drive pretty fast and I don't know, chris is a great driver, nick's a great driver.
Speaker 6:I rode with Chris day two.
Speaker 6:Um, you know, I used to ride with Chris a lot back when, like when I first started doing all this stuff and his F 100, I used to do it all like the Laughlin and prim races with him, ridgecrest.
Speaker 6:You know, the night race out there in Jean and um, I hadn't ridden with him for a very long time and I rode with him, you know, a couple, you know a month ago or whatever it was, and it was a blast. You know he's he's so like laser, focused on doing well and doesn't talk, you know, doesn't say a word the whole race, and he starts, he gives you a little head nod and then you know you finish and he gives you another head nod and you get out part ways. So where nick's like his hands are doing this the whole time, you know his hands are barely on the wheel we were going like one hundred and twenty five and he hits this, this jump, and he just does this. And I always see him doing his videos like he does this thing for the tuba and the video guys, where he sees the videographer and he'll launch the truck and then he just goes lock to lock and I'm like, dude, is that, is that really necessary? Like, why are we doing that, nicholas?
Speaker 2:hey, so I actually I don't know that he's doing it for the same reason, but, like when I raced rc cars, the professional rc guys do the same thing rc cars are inside the car, though, I know but they do it.
Speaker 6:They do it to check the steering wheel so, yeah, I think nick's doing it for the gram. I honestly think, well, if he's doing it for the gram.
Speaker 2:That's fine too, but like there is like a reason to do that yeah, they're not it looks cool car.
Speaker 6:Yeah, all I think, because, like he's racing, he's just thinking about you know racing and going as fast as he's going. I'm just thinking, man, if that steering gear locks up and we're full lock left, that that doesn't bode well for us, you know, in in the truck.
Speaker 3:So I don't know Doing it for the people Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 6:Those guys are awesome. They have a pretty cool you know social media page. Everything they do is awesome. They're hilarious. So, no, it's awesome. I like racing with the Eisenhowers. I wish I could do it more.
Speaker 2:It's kind of cool that you've gotten to ride with well, erica has too but like that, you've gotten to ride with so many different people, right? Do you have, like, yeah, some memories in the past or some stories that have been like, wow, I was a little bit nervous to ride with this person, but they totally, like you know, made it better once we got behind the wheel, or like, holy crap, it was crazy yeah, I mean, that was honestly how it was in the beginning, racing with proctor.
Speaker 6:Um, you know, because I did most of my mexico stuff was with proctor in the seven truck and then it turned into the tisco seven truck, which was, you know, a pretty fast truck. Um, you know, when we were racing we're always racing with spec trucks and class one cars and all that- um, so most on us one time yeah koh. That was a.
Speaker 4:Was that koh yeah yeah that was fun, I uh this narrow little section and popped out. I'm like, well, that was awesome pass I love.
Speaker 2:What vehicle were you in?
Speaker 4:I think I was with bader yeah, you were with bader either.
Speaker 6:Bader dan, right? Yeah, I don't know, it was for sure the bader truck.
Speaker 2:Well tell, yeah give us a little bit more of a rundown. Tell us a story of how they popped out.
Speaker 4:And then I want to hear from Evan too. We'll have similar stories.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it'll be similar.
Speaker 4:That's the bottom line, but it was just a strategy. There were two really long out-of-the-way lines and one got really narrow and their truck trucks a little bit narrower than ours. So, uh, we took the non narrow way and we you pop out and like the line they were on is a pretty much left 90 up a hill and ours is kind of straight through. So they just like came in and we slammed on the brakes and then they got in front of us and they went. I think that's what I love about racing you know, you can, you can be out there.
Speaker 4:It's, it's not ferocious, you know, you guys are just like you're racing your race and I love that.
Speaker 2:I love passes like that. Did you know that that you guys were going to give a run for the money right there?
Speaker 6:Yeah, yeah, no, we did, we were. I mean, they were super fast. It took us a while. I remember that same race I think that was the race that Dustin Grabowski passed us Like we were standing still. I didn't even know a truck could go that fast in these rollers and it was off the start and we I think we outqualified them. But they were like right behind us and we went over the BJ Hill, we're going down those you know the big whoops, and all of a sudden we just feel bang, like right off the bat, like oh, there must be a truck behind us. And then Dustin goes by us like wow, that truck is really fast for a spec truck.
Speaker 6:And then we were on them, you know, within maybe 30 seconds of them, for the next 20 miles, and they're in these rollers and I remember we're trying to keep up with them and I just see their truck just launching, like wow, how is he going that fast? And then Proctor and I ended up getting a flat, you know, like five minutes later. And then we were way down on time. But the later that race or sometime later, we ended up catching up to you guys and then we were kind of in your dust. And then I told Proctor like hey, you got that left turn, should we try it? And we tried it and you know it ended up working out for us. But I would have been, you know, on the receiving end if it didn't work out. That's the one downside of being a navigator sometime and calling out for the driver like hey, go try that or go try that line over there. If it doesn't work out, then they're just looking at you like what, why did we do that?
Speaker 2:that's actually a super good point to bring up. So when you guys are writing your course notes, do you guys have spare lines? Oh, yeah, yeah oh yeah, that's like how do you, how do you do that like?
Speaker 6:so, uh, erica probably has a lot more than me, but, like when I go with with like christian serapis, we'll go pre-run like san felipe, you know 250 mile race and he'll go put two 2 000 miles in pre-running it. He'll know every single like little stick and um, we'll have all these alternate lines and I put notes in there like, oh, if we're in this much, you know, if we're on someone, we could take this line. Or and I have all this like lingo I put into the gps when I'm really like pre-running um says it's always our fault.
Speaker 6:That's 100 yeah, but no. So christian's big on that. I enjoy doing that. You know, pre-running with him is always fun and then he kind of just leaves it up to me. He remembers the course. A guy like Christian, he'll literally remember every inch of the course. He just needs to be reminded. You know, like, hey, we're coming up to you know that one high line or that one low line, like, because I don't know we've we've gotten a lot of people, um, in San Felipe, especially on some good lines, and uh, that's honestly where I've I've, like, really learned a lot of the pre-running stuff was with pre-running with Christian. You know he goes to the fullest extent to. You know turn around and go back and turn around again. And you know I'm sitting in the car for you know 10 hour day and when I get back I'm like, hey, we gotta work on the pre-runner now I want to go to sleep. So, yeah, he's, he, he puts in the effort.
Speaker 4:You know that kid can he really goes I've pre-ran two races with him before and he definitely needs to put in the effort, yeah oh, yeah, yeah, he does it's finding all those spare lines like how do you inject those in to be in a positive, useful use case during the race.
Speaker 4:So I think everybody does it a little bit different. I use waypoints and I do segmented lines. So if there's a line coming, I'll drop a trail and I decide if I want to keep it or delete it. I have, I'm telling you guys, but I have like my cut lines are red, and then if there's a line that's not necessarily faster but could get me out of dust, I make it green and I make my way point, say pass. And so I have my own strategy where, ahead of time, I'll put a way point and it'll say right line, and I definitely want to take it, or I want to pass, and so I'll know. You know I have variation.
Speaker 4:I have variation in my notes as well for racing in dust versus being able to see what we're up against.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. Then you just have that on the forefront like as a reminder. Oh well, I already got this taken care of if I need it. Do you have a lot of stuff like that too, evan, like where you can have a backup plan?
Speaker 6:Yeah, yeah, I mean, what we generally do is we'll go run the course you know, the actual course for the first day and see what it looks like, and then we'll go do the course again, you know, on the second day and start finding lines. And then, by like the fourth or fifth day, you know we're trying all these different lines and we might say, hey, for this section we want to take all these you know cut lines and see how they do, make sure we hit the VCPs and, uh, you know, verify with the Stella that everything's working correctly. And you know, string it all together basically, but kind of do it in segments.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's kind of how I do it. The the first time through. We always stay on race course and I like to Mark rocks and dangers only because you're not always able to keep your pre-runner alive the whole time. Yeah, so if the pre-runner breaks, at least I have rocks and dangers and I'm comfortable going.
Speaker 6:Yeah, that's smart.
Speaker 4:I'll drop waypoints to check a line next time. So I'm not always on the hunt, but I have some things to go back to, but then I'll start looking for flow, changing some things, and then I'll start looking for lines on the second one and then the third time. It's just like trying to get it all together, making sure everything flows and all the dangers are right.
Speaker 6:Yeah, yeah, but you have to do. You do anything on like Google Earth before. No, you know. I recycle my notes. Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Finish your sentence. I don't think you guys can hear the audio. Can you hear my little voice? I can, can you hear her? But she's talking like a midget right now because I pressed a button on the thing.
Speaker 7:I am a midget.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you guys can't hear it, so all right. Well, all the funniness just went away on that.
Speaker 4:So at least iTunes will be able to hear it. Oh, he keeps changing my voice to like a little baby, so it just sounds funny and gives us the giggles.
Speaker 2:So we're laughing over here, you guys aren't.
Speaker 4:Sorry, we're laughing at ourselves. I'm used to that. I want to back you up a little bit. You mentioned riding with Dan and this isn't for dan in particular, but how he can read terrain. How awesome is it when you're with a driver who you know you, he can read terrain and just like put things together out of nowhere yeah, I mean that's, that's, um, it makes the co-driver's job a lot less stressful.
Speaker 6:If you feel like I'll say this sometimes like when you're in a car and you don't have to call out notes, you know the truck's not going to crash, that's always a good feeling and I've ridden with some people where you have to talk the whole time and if you feel like, oh crap, I messed up on my note or whatever and I got to go back, or you know the gps takes a crap. Um, you feel like you're gonna crash with a guy like dan. You know the GPS takes a crap. Um, you feel like you're going to crash with a guy like Dan. You know he's going to drive what he can see in default.
Speaker 6:You know, I got the chance like three years ago, three or four, I can't remember exactly. I should have it ingrained in my head, but I got the chance to ride with Rob McCacken on day two at Baja, nevada, um, and Steve's office's truck and um, steve did the first day. I rode with steve on day one, uh, day two, steve wasn't feeling up for it, so rob uh got in and drove day two and you know that was definitely the highlight of people that I've ridden with, because you know he's just a professional. I mean, there's there's not one rock that we hit and it was pretty fun. You know, we we were racing with justin bean smith. He was in the graph trophy truck and, uh, you know, it was probably some of the most fun racing I've ever done. Um, and like it was starting to rain and like I was calling out notes, he, I think he usually uses Siri, but we didn't have Siri. I was just using, you know, the old fashioned legacy notes.
Speaker 6:And um, yeah, uh, but no, I was just calling out. You know what I could see and it was so much fun was that was a fun race. I enjoyed that a lot. That was definitely a high point. And then riding with caden you know he's a great driver and you know navigating for him. He's got his own style and everyone has their own style. That's what I'm coming to find out. You know, dustin grabowski, super easy, he'll let you. You know you can say whatever you want. You can tell him right and he'll still go left if it's a left.
Speaker 2:So you know there's kind of those guys just default yeah, they just default my experience level again, like I've said in the show before, is like is very limited compared to you guys. But I know it's exactly what you're saying. I've had the opportunity to ride with rob mccachren on the short course track in a utv and that's cool it's funny because, like I race professional utvs for yamaha on short course and I thought I was a decent driver, and then I get in the car with him and I'm just sitting there and I go oh, now I get it he's reading Now I understand like I may be 10% of the caliber driver.
Speaker 2:I thought I actually was because now I see how it actually is, Like this is how you're supposed to drive a vehicle not how you thought you were Right, Like you. But I to drive a vehicle not how you thought you were right, but I didn't know until I didn't know. And it's kind of like what you're saying, Like you got to experience those things. Were those like mental game changers in your head. You're like, oh, wow, Okay, now I experienced this. Now I can apply this to the next navigation situation that I'm in.
Speaker 6:Yeah, no, it's pretty amazing. I really enjoyed. You know, those types of experiences are really fun because you know it's not every day when you don't have as much stress navigating, you know, when you're not prepping the car. I think at that point in time we weren't quite prepping that number six truck yet. I think it was like the first race that we were prepping it. I can't remember, but you know there wasn't as much stress. We already did day one. Everything was running great, um. So I don't know, it's just, uh, something to think about. You know, the Bader thing just kind of arrive and ride that that whole deal. So I didn't really care. I was like, hey, if it breaks, it breaks. And then, you know, day two, bader and I were actually doing really well and then we lost the serpentine belt.
Speaker 4:No, we could see me like what the heck I would try to beat you to every pit so I could cheer you on. And jeff said I saw as much defeat in your face as my own I was.
Speaker 6:So I was so mad because, like, we don't have those problems, like any of the stuff that comes out of my shop, knock on wood, we don't have, like belt serpentine, belt breaking, like throwing belts. That's like a thing of the past. If you have the proper tools, you know how to put it all together. It's not going to throw a belt. And we were like I forget what place we're in, but we're doing really well on day two and bader's a really good driver too. I mean, that's someone who's you know, very aggressive on the brakes. Yes, yeah, yeah, he drives it like a road course car. Yeah, but he's straight line brakes. I get sketched out when people like to you know they're driving real fast and then they try and yawn into a corner. I hate that. I'm like why?
Speaker 6:are you doing that? Just stay straight. Let the truck step out a little bit. Don't like try and flick it into a corner.
Speaker 4:I used to tease him that I've never heard so much screeching in the dirt like the first 40 miles. He thinks he's on road, you know, and so when you when I saw you were with him I'm like give him a couple miles he will settle in, but it takes a minute because that's his background yeah, but he can definitely drive he's really aggressive. He grunts a lot. I always tease him about that, but he'll make it happen either way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah all right, evan, we got to get emma cornwell on here so what are your two most important things? Uh, as a navigator, that you would relay to newbies in the navigator field.
Speaker 6:I didn't initially want to be a navigator. Because I wanted to be a navigator, I started doing it because we're prepping the trucks and it's a good benefit when you're getting into this industry to ride in the truck you're prepping. So that was kind of my whole start with this. It's like if I'm going to try and bring these, know, bring these clients into my shop and, you know, have them, trust me, prepping their car, I'm going to put myself out there to ride with them. And then it just kind of clicked.
Speaker 6:You know, I was, I thought pretty decent at it and, like you know, we had some good success racing different races and kind of just went from there. So for me it's not like navigating is what I want to do, it's just like an added bonus you get to go ride in the car. So if you enjoy prepping a car and it's something that you want to do as a profession or do it in your side job on the weekends for a race guy, start prepping the car and then say, hey, I can navigate for you or do a leg of a race for you. It's always good to have someone in the car that's mechanical. That's kind of where it started for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that. We haven't talked too much about that. Maybe we should talk with them a little bit about that, about getting out, changing tires and doing all this other physical stuff too. Thanks, abby, I really appreciate it, you definitely have to be mechanical yeah.
Speaker 4:And sometimes there's only so much you can do, but you have to know how to do the Baja fixes. There's only so much you can do on an engine but certain things.
Speaker 6:If there's a will, there's a way, yeah, yeah, I mean, if you're with a reputable team that has good equipment, then you don't have to be mechanical. But it's more like getting unstuck is a big thing, like riding with Christian. We've had some bottlenecks before that we kind of like fell into and getting navigated through a bottleneck. That's always something. You got to be not mechanical in a mechanic sense working on a car, but you know being able to get out of a car and feel confident to go. You know walk a trail and tell someone where to go when there's, you know, 12 spec trucks stuck in front of you and everyone's just sitting there waiting for you know someone to get unstuck. Yeah, I think that's the, the yeah, that's the thing you got to be able to get out. And you know think on your toes and you know know how to get a truck unstuck. That's something you know I had to deal with at the baja 500. That wasn't fun.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's crazy. We could probably talk for an hour about just that stuff.
Speaker 3:Um all right, yeah, well, thank you very much I appreciate you taking the time after work.
Speaker 6:We'll see you yeah, after work I'm gonna go clock back in. We'll see you guys. All right, thank you, have a good night. Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Bye all right, let's get emma cornwell on here too. That's actually a really good uh uh point that he brings up is you have to be versatile, because there's so many things that happen not just in the passenger seat, but helping the race move forward. Oh, absolutely, and that was one of the things that happen, not just in the passenger seat, but helping the race move forward?
Speaker 4:oh, absolutely, and that was one of the things that king of the hammers, hi emma, that I struggled with in the rocks. It was like everyone's sitting in their car yeah get out and get that person out in front of you yeah, like help when you have a five foot female that looks like a toddler in a helmet come up and tell you to get out of your car and help. It doesn't go over very well, so I just decided it wasn't for me anymore.
Speaker 2:Maybe you should wear like a mohawk and some spiked shoulders, or something Like be all aggressive, all right. So Emma Cornwell has been in the passenger seat, well, and she's driven a bunch too, and she's driven many, many more miles than most boys in Baja, and now is newly engaged to Caden Wells. So hi.
Speaker 9:Emma.
Speaker 2:Cornwell, how are you?
Speaker 9:good, how are you guys?
Speaker 2:doing very well, thank you. So where are you?
Speaker 9:at these days. Well, right now I'm in Idaho. I'm in a physician assistant school, so my clinical rotations are out here. Uh, for the next few months dang, that's pretty exciting aunt and uncle's house.
Speaker 2:Oh really yeah nice, that's pretty cool. Um, all right. So the first question we're just going to get it out of the way. Um, there's not that many girls we're obviously have erica here too that ride in the passenger seat because it's uh, I don't know what you want to call it I don't want to sound like I'm being chauvinist here, but like it's mostly known as a guy's uh position, right? So, first and foremost, kudos to both of you, because both of you guys are taking on a job of uh, you know, doing a lot of different things and you've had a lot of experience in it. So, you know, I really appreciate that you guys are doing it, because you guys provide so much more of a different angle than most people do. We were talking about patience earlier. We were talking about working on the trucks and cars and different things earlier, so there's so many more different levels to this that we've even covered in this show. What are some of the things that you didn't know leading up to being a navigator?
Speaker 9:Oh man, there was a lot. I remember I grew up watching my dad do it and I wanted to get in the car and I he was working for score and I remember he was walking up to Sarah, sarah and Erica at the finish line.
Speaker 9:Yeah, I'm sure it is Um at the finish line of a score race and they're in their spec truck and he was like, okay, well, go ask him questions. Like go talk, you want to go get in the car. Like you got to go talk to him, I was like I can't do it. I don't even know where to begin to ask, so I didn't know anything, um, but yeah, I think a lot of people think it's easy going and fun and you just sit there, but it's, it's a lot of work for sure one of the things that, what was one of of the things that surprised you about it when you got in.
Speaker 2:Was it the speed? Was it the relationship with the driver? Was it getting out and having to change broken parts? What did? You were like, oh my God, this is way different than I thought.
Speaker 9:I was expecting to have to get out of the car and I was just willing to, and I think that's the big thing with. I don't have a big background in mechanics other than hanging out in the shop like I was willing to get out and help. Um, but definitely stepping up into, especially from like an na car to the pro r, the speed difference there and I feel like a baby navigator. All these people have been in trophy trucks but um, the speed difference there and adapting to that, I think was a learning curve for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's quite a bit different, did you have like? Because some of those same kind of I don't know learning experiences on your way up too.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of learning. I started with my dad as well, and I used to just call right and left, you know.
Speaker 4:And then, once Sarah and I really started going and getting in the truck I also have a background in rally racing. That's how I know Ryan Millen and how we came together Um, but there you kind of have to immerse yourself and really just learn as you go. There's so many. I have a lot of really cool mentors that I got to learn from on the fly. I don't think everybody has that opportunity, but if you do ask questions, I bet you asked a lot of questions. I asked a ton of questions. I still do but there's just so many things that you don't realize go into it and you have to figure it out.
Speaker 9:Definitely. It's kind of learning on the fly and I think asking your driver like, hey, what do you want? And Caden's not super vocal person in the car, but there I was like you need to tell me what you want, so I know at least, so I have an example and then I can build off of that. Yeah, exactly, we talked about being intuitive a little earlier I think it was with Kyle. Right, I know at least, so I have an example and then I can build off of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, we talked about being intuitive a little earlier I think it was with Kyle right and women are more intuitive than men, no matter what, I don't care what anybody says. So is that, does that make your job easier? And understanding what the driver wants and needs?
Speaker 9:I think so. Yeah, I think it's. It's helped in the past with other drivers and now with kate in like not only being together all the time in the car and having like thousands of miles pre-running, but being together outside of the car so often. That definitely gives me a different level of, uh, being comfortable with him and how he's feeling and what he needs, and you know his mood or how, how he's driving.
Speaker 2:Even in the slightest change I feel like I can kind of pick up on it, so like halfway through a baja 500 you're like this dude needs a durango's burrito and I gotta crank it to taylor swift like we gotta get this party started yeah, or I need a durango's quesadilla or whatever bowl because I'm getting tired, and I think that's probably both of our.
Speaker 9:Our biggest downfalls is the lights go out and we're like Ooh, okay, I think it's bedtime. Where the 500,? We raced the whole thing, so we can't really get out and take a nap when it gets dark.
Speaker 2:You got to crank up the Taylor Swift and get it going, dude.
Speaker 9:Yeah, definitely, there's definitely tunes going.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think that's something that a lot of navigators or people that want to get into navigating don't understand is you're in the car, yes, for several hours, hundreds of miles, but it doesn't feel like that, does it ever feel? Like that to you, or are you just so busy that it just kind of clicks along?
Speaker 9:I feel like when we're like in the hunt for the whole race, for sure like the time goes by so quick. But if we kind of like have an opportunity to step it down a notch, I'm like, oh, this is, this is nice, okay, like I'm looking around, you know, and then maybe the time goes by a little quicker.
Speaker 4:But yeah, when you're really racing and pushing it, it does not feel like 500 miles or hours on end, yeah, and then another piece of that is I never realize I'm tired or I have to pee or something's bothering me, until like a speed zone or something. Then you're like man, I'm tired, I'm cold. You know I have.
Speaker 9:Man, I'm tired, I'm cold, you know I have to pee now, you know and I don't want to pee because it'll be more cold, because it's nighttime now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I just feel like you speed zones are slow but we dread them because they're like kind of a wake up call, like oh my gosh, we're at mile 480, you know, or however long, but I always feel like they suck because you just have your, your moment of like this sucks, but then you get back in the dirt and you're busy and you forget about it yeah, that's crazy to even think about, because it's like heart racing and then all of a sudden it's like a deep breath and then heart racing again and a deep breath.
Speaker 4:It's like yeah, and at that point I'm kind of like limber is on, you're on your own.
Speaker 2:Actually we didn't talk about it too much, but I've had the opportunity to go with you guys, you know, with the Wells Racing Team, and go pre-running with you guys. That pre-running stuff, you guys take it very seriously. But we haven't talked about the difference between the way that pre-running feels and the way that the racing feels, like down in Baja, for instance. Right, because you just mentioned, it's nice to be able to take in the environment, it's nice to be able to see these things right, and I feel like a lot of the people that want to become a navigator, they'll go through all of these things. But when you put the helmet on and you start going racing, it is 100% different than what you just did. So, like, how do you differentiate that? Like, how do you?
Speaker 9:put yourself in the race mode. Um, I think it's similar to any other sport where you practice so much that, yes, it may be different and it's race day and you have to be focused and you know there's not going to be a break and and you have the nerves and everything else that goes into it. But there's a level of like confidence and being calm from just seeing the course so many times and knowing that your notes are dialed and knowing that your driver knows the course and, like Caden, memorizes it. So it's almost refreshing to get by each little like waypoint, if you will within the course and be like okay, we made it here. Okay, we got through that section. Okay, you know, I know what's coming next and I know how to prepare for that mentally. How do you break it?
Speaker 4:into chunks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say the same thing how do you get?
Speaker 4:through the miles.
Speaker 9:Yeah, I heard you say from pit to pit earlier and I think that's part of it. But and I think that's part of it but also like from kind of almost like things in my head that I think are dangerous sections, or like sections that I know I need to be really on top of my calls. I'm like okay, onto the next. This is either like a wash, where it's kind of free, flowy and fast and like I know it's not too bad. So I guess it just depends per race what I've marked in my head. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you guys get an idea of that? Like when you're pre-running you're like, okay, this is section one. Section two, section three.
Speaker 4:Like, I don't think so. I think it happens on race day for me. Does it happen ahead of time for you or do you? Sometimes there's sections where we've collectively discussed like, well, that's kind of going to suck and we just have to get through it. But I think other than that. For me it happens on the fly.
Speaker 9:Yeah, for me the most same for the most part, other than like sections. We've pre-ran like oh, we pre-ran this 150 miles six times and in my head that's kind of like its own section. Or maybe there's a highway crossing or a speed zone, for instance, or something that breaks it up a little bit.
Speaker 2:God, there's so much to remember. Like my brain is getting confused, I mean, like I'll probably just be like wiped out trying to understand what you guys do after the show. Because it's just so mind boggling how much actual information you guys have to process.
Speaker 4:But I think that's the art of it it doesn't feel like a lot when you're doing it. It just happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and I think you get used to it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I can't explain it.
Speaker 2:It starts becoming like second nature, like muscle memory.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I don't ever think about like checking my temps and all that stuff. It just like kind of happens yeah, and I like being busy.
Speaker 9:I think I run my life busy and I think I like putting a lot of things on my plate. So the navigator seat is just that. It's, yeah, it's having a lot to do, but also, I don't know, you're not the one driving either. That's a big, that's a big task in itself, big responsibility has there?
Speaker 2:has there been a lot of differences between some of the people that you've ridden with as far as, like, how they keep that mental focus, like, because we've had people say, you know, trevor said get some sugars in, eat a uncrustable. Like you know, we always make fun of Erica for Sour Patch Kids, like all of those different things like. But how do you like, on a serious level, how do you keep the driver focused and how do you keep yourself focused? Because that's the main goal, right?
Speaker 9:yeah, I think a lot of it's grit, like there have been some races where maybe it's been a tough day or it's late or something's going on. And it's like if I'm looking over and Caden's still driving fully, like like I know it sucks, I know we're both tired, but if I look over and he's at 100%, I'm like okay, well, there's no way I can quit. I can't sit here and be weak because I have to be strong for him, because it sucks just as bad for him. Um, but I think checking in and being like hey, you good, or I think somebody else earlier with saying like you know, applauding them, or being like hey.
Speaker 2:Emma, we're having a little bit of trouble with your audio right now, but yeah, she's right, like because you're you're kind of still no matter what, you're kind of still making sure that the operations are running and checking your oil, so to speak, with the driver and yourself the entire time, right. So thank you very much. Johnny K he said two-hour show so far and good information the whole time. Great job. And Michael Gissom like yeah, I couldn't co-drive either. Hats off to all these people that do it right, like. That's why I'm asking so many questions is because I'm so interested and I'm so I don't know, I'm really like dumbfounded because my brain can't operate the same way as you guys. Like I can't process that much information. I don't know how you guys do it.
Speaker 4:It just doesn't feel like it. And johnny k, who you were responding to, he's he used to navigate for the park houses. He's a really good navigator and he knows his stuff.
Speaker 2:And Michael Gissom said Emma, the energy of an amazing navigator or co-driver makes all the difference in the world. So it's kind of what you were talking about before.
Speaker 9:Sorry guys, my phone is glitching out.
Speaker 2:My mom is calling me, that's okay we can hear you now, so did you hear what I? Just said though michael giss and said the energy of an amazing navigator or co-driver makes all the difference in the world. Oh, we can't hear. Brothers there you go oh hello.
Speaker 9:Hi Hi, sorry, not my fault.
Speaker 2:Were you able to hear what.
Speaker 9:I said I heard you say Michael's comment. Was there a question attached to it, no.
Speaker 2:I mean, he did like the OK. Actually there is a question, it's from me how, how important is it to be the hype man in the right seat.
Speaker 9:I think it's pretty important. I feel like they can get so in their head over there just staring ahead, being super focused the whole time. I think it's really important to like keep the energy up and make it fun, because that that's why we're there ultimately. I mean, very few people make it as a full-time career and make a livelihood out of it. So we're all super competitive and we want to win, but we got to keep it fun sometimes.
Speaker 2:Are you able to do that? Oh yeah, there's times where you can't do that. You're going to have to answer this. Everybody that's listening on Instagram can't hear her, her, but she sounds like a midget in our phone. So if you're gonna go and check out itunes, mike just gave me the code word oklahoma to make erica talk like a midget on itunes.
Speaker 3:So please go check it on itunes. That's funny. Okay, I'm gonna try to get through this. I feel like when you're trying to be a hit man or a hype man sorry, this is weird. There's terms Like if you say go, the driver's like all right, I'll go, but if you're like go, go, go, they're more likely to just go and get that race going. You know like they're going to pick it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's a little bit extra. Yeah, yeah, I got you so you can set the tone.
Speaker 3:But if you're kind of like boring, they're just, they're gonna just kind of get through it.
Speaker 2:I can agree with that and sean geyser, like you're mirroring what I've been saying this whole time. He's he just commented in and said the real heroes are the navigators. They have to call notes all day but also have to keep uh the hype flowing. And I don't disagree with any of that stuff and I will till my dying day I will say how important the navigators are to any race team. Always uh and kudos to the guys that don't have a navigator. Like Blaine Conrad. He drives a single seat buggy. It's just insane right, but the amount of stuff that you guys have to deal with is just insane. Me, for instance, I can't even keep focused enough to look at the Lawrence and guide my own way, let alone tell the driver where to go.
Speaker 4:It's easier when you're busy. If I'm so, I'll go with somebody in a car and I'm just sitting there and I'm kind of on edge the whole time, I'll be honest. But when I'm busy and racing like I know what's coming, I know how the car is going to react. If you know how your driver drives, that's also a bonus because you're more comfortable. You know like they're good in this stuff. I can relax or I might need to brace myself a little bit here, but when you're busy it's cake, it's so easy.
Speaker 2:Well, let's talk about a completely different subject then. So, first and foremost, congratulations to you and Caden for taking the next step in your guys' relationship. I can't wait till you guys tie the knot. But there's a lot of husband and wife teams or boyfriend and girlfriend teams that operate just at a normal level. They do a fantastic job, right? Is that more difficult or less difficult, do you think, than, let's just say, a hired navigator for a professional race team or the husband and wife guys?
Speaker 9:I? I don't know, that's a great question. I haven't been really like a hired navigator for a professional team. I've navigated for other people other than caden, um, just kind of my uncle firstly, and then like once with once or twice with other people, um, navigating for my uncle again, that was family, so there wasn't. There was familiarity there. Um, and navigating for Caden, there's like, I think, a different level. But when we get in the car I told him from the get-go I'm like, when I get in the car, I'm not Emma, I'm not the girl you have a crush on you think's cute, da, da, da. Like I made up some name, I think it was a manual. I'm like I'm a dude in the car, like just treat me like another guy in the car, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:So I don't know, maybe maybe we are just like any other navigator, coach or driver navigator, but I mean realistically probably not well, I just think it's cool right, because, like we always talked about it, the reason that we started the dirt life show is because off-road has this huge, uh, camaraderie aspect and love and caring, and being out in the desert just brings you to a different level in your human capacity and your soul and all this stuff right.
Speaker 2:And that's where it all starts, right, you just want to go racing and then all of a sudden it turns into either a professional winning characteristics or a professional job or whatever it is. But along that whole path there is tons and tons of families that do it and it's brother, sister navigating, mother and father navigating, you know, husband and wife with no kid, whatever, it is right. And all of these things, whether they get along in that race or not, bring the families closer together. I think it's great that you guys are doing it and I really just I don't even know what I'm saying, but I understand that every piece of it like makes my heart feel good and I know that it makes your guys's heart feel good when you guys get out of the car.
Speaker 9:Yeah, 100%. It's so special to have, like, my dad up there on the podium. It's a little special because he works for score so he can be right there, but typically my uncle will be there. Caden's entire family is there and that's one big thing. I'm marrying into the best family I could be and really our two families have come together over this, which has been amazing.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool to see, don't you think?
Speaker 4:Oh, I love it. I met my husband because he wanted me to co-drive for him in Raleigh, and now we're married and I did race a UTV race with him and once you get in that seat it's fun.
Speaker 4:You know each other so well and it's like, oh, we get to do this for fun together, you know, and I race with my brother and we have the best time together. James and I play the whole time I have to. He tries to get me to look at trees and stuff and I'm like, dude, we're racing, I can't get lost, but um, but I think it's fun. It adds another element of fun. Could I race with my dad? Would be a different question.
Speaker 2:So you pick your family members is what you're saying?
Speaker 4:that you want to race I haven't raced with my dad since I've started navigating professionally. Um, we've wanted to nerf my dad so bad, but we've never actually gotten to like outright pass each other. Um, and he wanted me to race nora with him and I was a little bit weary. I didn't get to race nora with him, uh, but I was kind of like do you think I could do this? Is he going to get mad at me? Is it easier for him to get mad at me?
Speaker 4:Or is it something we're going to naturally be able to throw away, like we do with everyone else? You know, and I think it depends, what's your relationship like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it probably makes it even stronger. So Michael Gessom just said there's so much emotion in these long races, and especially at the finish line. Obviously you share that with the others and it's super special. But, um, and then well, johnny k, he also said you know you got to keep it loose, but that's the whole way, right, like that's the whole entire piece of it.
Speaker 9:You do all of that from the day you start pre-running until the time you cross the finish line and then cross the border or wherever it is that you're racing back to your house, right, and that's what the whole soulful feeling is definitely it's the, it's the entire thing, and the main goal is definitely be able to get back home to the rest of your family and say, okay, we accomplished it and we did it safely and it was fun and I had fun doing it fun is a loose term here, right?
Speaker 4:So the last 50 miles of every race. I think I kind of like ask myself why the heck I do this. It could be a 100-mile race and the last 50 miles I'm like I hate this. Why do I do?
Speaker 9:this, this is tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the term fun is not there anymore. Or when you go through a tree and the tree's hanging on you and you have to throw it out the window. That's just nav life.
Speaker 4:But then like a day or two later I'm like, yeah, that was fun.
Speaker 9:That was fun. The adrenaline was really great yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the adrenaline. And the last 50 miles there's no adrenaline. You're just ready to get to the finish line. So that was one thing I was wondering. Do just ready to get to the finish line. So yeah, that was one thing I was wondering do you hit? That wall of 50 miles, or do you?
Speaker 9:have a different wall. No, I definitely hit about 50 miles when you're coming back into Ensenada and you hit Ojos and then you do that section that you already did on the way out. At the start I'm like, do I really have to do this again, like I already did? This, I really don't want to yeah yeah, that's awesome yeah, what about?
Speaker 2:have you? Have you and caden ever talked about doing like uh, let's just say a uh, a non-points paying race, like uh, I don't know, just some sort of local race in the united states, let's just say in utah, nevada, and having you drive and having him co-drive?
Speaker 9:I don't know man, I don't know. He's a really good teacher. In the passenger seat We've brought up the powder puff race, but honestly, I've been super busy with school and he's out building houses, so timing is a little tough right now, but maybe in the future I think it would be fun. I would more want him to coach me and be like okay, this is what I do in this situation. Like okay, then maybe I can go as fast as you. But I know off the get-go there's no way I'm going to be as fast as him. Like I don't care how many times I'm in the passenger seat and I think I know, oh, like he should drive it like this, there's way I know off the bat how to do it myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that would just be super cool. Would you and Mike do it?
Speaker 4:I think he would probably do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But back to like being as good as the drivers. Right, I had this conversation with Ryan that I would probably suck as a driver. I'm not as confident. I know what it should feel like. Can I do it myself? I don't know, but I can tell you how to do it, from the driver's seat or from the passenger seat, and I can tell you what you did. I can be bossy all the way, oh yeah, by the feeling of it all. But can I do it myself? I don't know.
Speaker 4:I don't think so, and that's something that I think drivers know what they want to hear, navigating or how it works, but can they navigate? And I think that's something that, if you look at it as a whole, like we have our offices and we stay in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why I've been saying this whole time like I'll stay in my lane and I already know that I'm not the greatest driver anymore but like I don't want to sit in the passenger seat because I'm way worse at that, like, so I know exactly what you're talking about. Hey, so I'm going to do a little plug real quick for Maxis. So you guys were talking about the last leg of the race At the Vegas Arena race. Maxis is going to be putting up $10,000 for the fastest last segment from pit 13 to the finish line for anybody that gets there. So that kind of changes if you and you don't even have to be a Maxis sponsored athlete. So it kind of changes your whole race, right, because now you have to get to at least pit 13 to take home some cash.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but that is gnarly. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So you got to make it at least whatever 600 miles before you get there, or however many miles it is. But that last segment, they're going to be able to give away $10,000 cash. So please go check out the Max's social media page and get information on what classes they're going to offer that to. If you didn't qualify for it, you better make it to pit 13 and then just smash the pedal.
Speaker 9:That's awesome. That'll be a fun race. Yeah, those last 13 to the finish will be really fun, especially if you're battling with someone. I just did that at a snore race and that was probably the fastest 10 miles of my my life. It was amazing.
Speaker 4:It was so fun, yeah I mean, with 30 miles to go right, there's not much to lose. So you just gotta get on the gas the only thing about that last 30 miles is it's all rocks, right you have.
Speaker 2:You have a little bit of like windy roads going up there and then it's rocks and he said it basically starts where there's that party in the, in the on the top of the hill, and then you just bomb and then just's rocks. He said it basically starts where there's that party on the top of the hill and then you just bomb and then just go for it. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's a cliff. You can throw it away pretty easily in some places, but I think that's a really cool thing to do. More sponsors should do stuff like that. Segments, that's cool.
Speaker 2:So thanks to Maxis for offering that. Go check out the Maxis social media page and check it out and see if your classes get qualified for that. So, Emma, what is your favorite thing about navigating? And then what's your first?
Speaker 9:tip that you would give to some newbies. My favorite part is getting to go on this like fun ride with an amazing driver and go fast. And like a real life roller coaster, the adrenaline, everything about it. I love it. And my tip for first term navigator would be like if you were to close your eyes and try to figure out how to navigate through a course and you were wondering like, well, what's coming up next? Or like, is it, what kind of a turn, is it? Or are there rocks? If you're having these questions or you're looking at the GPS wondering like, oh, I wonder what's coming up next. Well, then your driver probably is too, if they can't see or if they're in dust or something. So you know, sometimes the more information isn't always the best, but for the most part it probably. It's probably helping them out if they, if you're clear and they can understand what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Rambling's not really great, but Talking about snacks when you're going 150 miles an hour and there's a corner coming up.
Speaker 9:Yeah, make sure you call the corner before the snack.
Speaker 4:It happens and you have to be like hold on, there's a corner coming, exactly yeah, I have to get this note out really quick.
Speaker 2:Okay, now continue All right, well, thank you very much for joining us. We'll let you get back to all your stuff that you got going on and congratulations on all your stuff that you got going on, hey, and congratulations on all your school and stuff. I know it's hard to push through it all, but you're doing a great job, so keep it going.
Speaker 9:Heck. Yeah, oh, thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:All right, we'll see you later, emma.
Speaker 9:Okay, see you guys, you might have to walk me through how to Okay.
Speaker 2:Just click it once, and then is the bomb, and then we're going to wind down the show in a little bit, so let's get. Josh on. Do you know, josh?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I worked with Josh a little bit trading him.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, was he a good student.
Speaker 4:Heck yeah, he wants to learn, he's hungry to learn, he's hungry to get in that seat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, student heck. Yeah, he wants to learn, he's hungry to learn, he's hungry to get in that seat. Yeah, what's up rob, how's it going guys? Josh, felix, what's up man? So, uh, josh has been in a bunch of different uh vehicles, helped with all kinds of different teams, but uh, most notably, people would probably know him for uh class 11 type stuff. But uh, what's up, josh? How are you?
Speaker 5:good, I'm a little nervous. You guys put me against after all these great people don't be nervous, you're your.
Speaker 5:You're your own league yeah, exactly yeah you're josh felix, the people's oh god, the people's champ um, and so give us a little bit of a backstory on how you got involved in off-road, and then we'll start asking some navigator questions so I started racing about five years ago I bought a ride in a class 11 and um, then I went and bought a car, I started racing and it just somebody needed a co-driver and um, I kind of utilized my driving the little bit I had as to kind of utilize my driving the little bit I had as to kind of guiding, and I barely learned the GPS. What, maybe a year ago, erica, was it a?
Speaker 4:whole year ago. I don't even know if it was a year ago.
Speaker 5:Yeah, exactly. So it's been a lot of getting in trucks and like, hey, can you set up the GPS for me? And just going from there.
Speaker 2:Well, there's always an upward curve right, and then they is yeah as long as you're willing in to put, willing to put in the work, then you're going to reach your goals. And are you already there? You still have more goals to reach.
Speaker 5:No, I want to keep pushing all the all the old goals have been met, so, uh, we're putting new goals, you know does that? Mean that you're going.
Speaker 2:You're going to uh, stay in the mean that you're going to stay in the passenger seat. Are you going to get in the driver's seat some more? Are you going to share? Are you going to do both?
Speaker 5:Well, hopefully get more seat time driving. That's the goal. Right now we have nothing. The Vegas to Reno I had to pull out of that. We're building a new car for Nitro Cross, so hopefully we'll be back at the california 300. I'll be there with cowboy, so that that'll be back in the seat co-driver seat with him okay, cool.
Speaker 2:Well, what I hope is uh, we just had a conversation with uh cowboy and nicole. There's a little thing that's gonna have a little computer on board, a starlink and some cameras so we get to be able to sit inside the car with you guys and actually watch the trip.
Speaker 7:That'll be pretty cool. It'll be good, yeah, so we'll get to see.
Speaker 2:So you got to hold yourself fully accountable as to how good of a navigator you're going to be.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that would do good. Cowboy does good in there. He doesn't talk much. I like to hear somebody talk to me as I drive, so I try to implement that. Whether they listen to me or not, that's you know, that's their decision. But usually Cowboy just kind of nods his head and does what he's got to do, you know so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so give us a little bit of a breakdown on that. Erica, you guys can have a good conversation about this, but do you have different styles depending on who you who's you know, car you're sitting?
Speaker 5:in like are you going to talk the whole time if catwood doesn't want to? You know, somebody doesn't want you to be talking the whole time. Like how do you navigate that? Uh, I think they've mentioned earlier just kind of fill out the person. Like there's certain people I ride with roy tompkins and uh, it's funny, man roy just have like a nonchalant conversation the whole race and then middle of the conversation, like nighty you know, and then opens up at the end and then we go back to our conversation about Chinese food or whatever we got going on at the moment.
Speaker 2:Have you had, like you just have casual conversation the whole time, or like Not really.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm kind of adamant about going with drivers that want my help and want me to you know, call because otherwise, like I said, I'm kind of bored, or you know, and or I realize I'm tired and I got a piece of white. I enjoy being busy and calling out everything I can um yeah but I think to each their own it driver. Some drivers need nothing, some drivers need it all. So I think it.
Speaker 2:It just varies yeah, it's kind of crazy to think about that because, like, as we've progressed throughout this show, um, I've thought about everything that josh is saying right now too. Like I've thought, okay, would I want somebody calling in my ear the whole time, would I want somebody to just be quiet the whole time? Would I want somebody to have a casual conversation with me to break up the monotony of the race? And I, I don't know, like I really don't yeah, and I think it depends.
Speaker 4:Are you giving the driver what the driver wants, like sometimes if you're not calling enough detail or different things? And this is nothing against you, josh, it's just kind of my experience is um, like sarah and I, when we first started I was just calling like easy, medium, hard, right. She told me too much information. By the time I was like kind of had her trained in rally style, because that's one of my backgrounds, like I mentioned. I'm pretty into that. She'll take a book with every corner, like she wants to know if there's something inside outside corner opens, tightens, is.
Speaker 4:Is it short? Is it back to back? You know, and if, if you're just going in corner, but now there's another corner, they're like, well, where the heck was that, you know? And then at that point they're like I can't just listen to half and drive whole right um and kind of what emma stepped on a little bit ago was if you had your eyes closed and wondered you know what's next, what's next, what's next. So if you think about it that way, you're giving them something to visualize while they're driving right.
Speaker 4:You're telling them this, to this, to this, you're telling them this to this, to this. So, if you're able to give them a whole picture instead of you know, part of a picture, some people only want part of the picture. Some people want the whole painting, you know. So it kind of depends on what your driver wants.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and it's. It's grown since then, you know it's. It's changed Like. Now I try to give people what I would want to hear. Right, I want to know what the next corner is going to be after this corner. Does it open, Does it tighten, Kind of like what you're saying? But that's where I started. You know started and it's gotten better. You know, and you're always trying to get better. Recently I got to pre-run with Toby and Bo Brent for the 500 for think, four days in the Armada KT01 and I got to learn a lot. That was really. That was pretty intense. You know those guys. It is impressive what they do for pre-running.
Speaker 2:I mean it is mind-boggling how much they work, but work they put in, you mean yeah, it's.
Speaker 5:I mean I thought I was in the third seat for just learning. They had me out there with a pick and shovel, you know like, oh yeah, these guys, I mean it was serious, I mean it was.
Speaker 4:It was good, though sauce.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, yeah yeah, exactly, it was wild. You know I loved your help yeah, it was, it was. It was good, though it was enlightening. How's that, you know, like you think they're just out there in an air-conditioned truck cruising. I mean, they're putting in work, you know yeah totally, and it showed, and it showed, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now that you guys are, saying that I think you guys kind of cleared it up for me. Like I would probably like more of the way that you taught sarah. Like I would like, let's just say, medium left coming up, two ruts, rock on the uh inside rut, stay up high or whatever.
Speaker 4:Like I would like all those details probably yeah, so if you, if you have it, you're going to like it. Uh, that's something that Ryan and I we we have a similar background but we do things different. He does one through seven. So I had to calibrate, um, and he was like I'll do it your way and I'm like, no, I'm here to work for you, I'll do it your way. So I had some calibration to do. Luckily, my calls are a number lower instead of a number higher, but I had to change. He likes the speed first, then the direction. I usually call a left six. He would want a six left. So, yeah, you're calibrating. But also sometimes I learned a lot from him. But I used to call corners in twos if they're back to back, and he taught me if there's kind of a straight or a pause to call an, and so it'd be like a left four and right two or something.
Speaker 4:So there's there's so many different ways of doing it and learning it that right, exactly trying to either teach a new driver um a different way or learning a driver's way is it's so fun and it's part of the added challenge dude, that is right.
Speaker 2:Have you noticed the same things, josh?
Speaker 5:yeah, and then, uh, not only that, but a big thing I think is meshing with the driver. Like you have to let there's people like I had to call off and say you know, it's not going to work out. I don't think it's best for us to be together in the truck, cause we just we don't, we don't mesh, we don't, we don't think the same. It's kind of like a how could you put it? Like not a butting of heads, but you just don't flow together. You know and yeah it's better to fight the court.
Speaker 5:Yeah, exactly, you know. So there's been those situations. But it's really awesome when you mesh, like erica saying, and the other drivers like you can almost like grunt and they know what you're talking about, you know, like, and they know what to do.
Speaker 2:You know it's, it's it's almost like situations like yeah it.
Speaker 5:It's almost like intimacy. You know it sounds creepy, but you know in. In reality it's like you guys just know what you're talking about. Both of you understand the driver to say yep or not. His head or?
Speaker 4:just make it happen. You know, I say it's an intimate relationship, obviously nothing sexual, but just the way that you communicate, and also you have to think like you're the only two that went through it together, the way you did the car before you didn't do it the exact same way you did.
Speaker 5:Right, well, you're connected.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you have to. You're kind of like a little married couple for a few days. You just have to make it work.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's right, exactly. It's pretty crazy and then. So one thing that I was going to ask you is, since you have so much experience in the class 11 stuff, um, what's some of the other trucks? Because you've ridden in a truck, obviously as well. Like, what do you have to do to be able to tune yourself to make sure that you're satisfying the driver if you're going at different speeds or you're listening to a different car, like those types of things? Because I feel like that's added a whole nother level of complexity.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think it's a lot of. It's relevant. Like most people think, a class 11 and a trucker really far off. I think they are in speed, but when you're in them they feel very similar. You know cause. You got six inches of travel, you're doing 40, you know you got two feet of travel, you're doing a hundred. But um, it's a lot more serious in the truck. You know a lot more. It's business. You need to be on your game because it's a lot more dangerous, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you make a mistake. Going 140 miles an hour, there's not much gonna.
Speaker 5:Uh, yeah, so you know try not to take yeah, try not to take a selfie, you know, uh, you know, yeah, yeah, right, try to watch your jokes. Try to make sure you don't confuse them with a, you know, a goofy comment. So I, I, you know, I try to minimize that kind of stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:So we just had a comment come in from lucas hand and I think this comment is a little aggressive, but I actually really do like it. So he said the sad part is most drivers and co-drivers can't survive without electronics and most can't read terrain. So I won't disagree completely with that. But I will throw a caveat into that.
Speaker 2:There has been many, many times when I've seen people cross the finish line with no radio communication and no electronics being used because it went out at the first portion of the race, and I'm not saying this happens frequently because I don't want to bag on any of these companies, but there's different things that happen in off-road racing, that it happens more than you think, and these people get along with just hand signals, just like stop signal, all kinds of different things smack your driver for a danger, whatever it is to get to the finish line. So I'll argue that point and I will agree with that point, but I think it's a good topic of conversation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm going to agree to disagree here. I think racing has evolved to the point of having to use your electronics. I've definitely had a GPS go out electronics. I've definitely had a GPS go out. If anybody watched my in-car at the start of the 500, my GPS antenna literally took crap on the start line and I was like all right, ryan, I'm just going to try to like move it along as I know that we're going. It's not going to be precise, but I'm going to have to deal with it.
Speaker 4:Radios go out more than we like to admit, but that's part of rolling with the punches. But I think now racing has gotten so competitive I've raced one of my teammates and lost by three seconds at the end of the Baja 500. That comes down to corners, corner speed, trusting your driver, trusting your navigator and being able to click and get that flow and just get moving. Because going up Mike's Sky Ranch and not having the right notes, not having you know the trust in each other, if you're checking up over a crest, where someone is setting up over a crest, that's a tenth a second. It could be a half a second. Now you have to get that speed back. So now you've extended that little tiny break into a longer thing. So think about how long the road is to Mike's Sky Ranch Road and you can gain seconds or you can lose seconds. So yeah, we do rely on our electronics a lot, but we've figured out how to use them to the best extent.
Speaker 2:And how do you feel about that, like, what do you do to overcome stuff like that when you have issues come up? Josh?
Speaker 5:We actually there's been numerous times in the bugs and limited cars the radios go out, but it's not catastrophic like a truck, like erica says at mike's or something that's. You know, that's a lot of speed, um, just keep pushing, you know? Uh, barstow, we got in a truck and I got there that night and we went to take off, had no comms we had. So I had to learn like hand signals real quick, learn sign language to tell the guy you know. And we made it work. You know, I mean you're not competitive but you're out there doing it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, exactly. It's so crazy to think like that's how it used to be, though, yeah, right.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But you also had like sticks for suspension and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true Right Speed was maybe 80.
Speaker 5:Well, I always make fun of the class 11 guys. They basically have sticks for suspension guys still, yeah, I mean, you know we're pushing, you know we hit 96 miles an hour, like three years ago at the man on the lake bed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was scary dude that's so cool yeah, just did an applause on the.
Speaker 2:On the audio, so on itunes if you want to see it. We just yeah, that's cool man. Do you have any experiences that, uh, that you've had? Where you were, just like uh, we talked to a bunch of people like you're just gelling.
Speaker 5:You were in the zone with your driver yeah, I'm trying to think we raced the nor 1000 with carrie chrisman in the armada kt01 and a lot of that race was like that. A lot of those days it was just kind of like I was calling out notes and he was just kind of flowing and there was no conversation. It was just kind of I was business and he was doing it and you know, like, like Erica said, he would be 90 tight, uh, opens up and then it kicks back, you know. So he already knew what was coming and that was probably one of my better experiences as a co-driver, I think, just kind of giving him what he needed to hear and him implementing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it feels like he's your other set of arms A little bit yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and if we go back to not having a radio, like you said you kind of had to learn sign language radio, like you said you kind of had to learn sign language. The crazy part is you think about a UTV versus a trophy truck and the width of the cockpit, right. So in a UTV you're as close as George and I, but in a truck we're pretty far apart and so sometimes my arms don't really make it over there, especially yours, yeah, so.
Speaker 4:I loosen up my belts or whatever and you just got to make it happen. And that's what's so fun about off-road racing it never goes 100% your way. You just got to make it happen.
Speaker 5:Right, exactly that's the challenge.
Speaker 2:That's why we do it, so we didn't get to talk about it too much with Emmama like we were supposed to, but, um, I wanted to ask josh, so how do you feel about, like, when you have to get out of the car because it's not a navigator per se now, you're a mechanic like, and you guys both have to do this? You've been faced millions of times lifting a 40 inch tire in a truck like that's just insane to me 40s well, I'll change a 40 over a 35 on a UTV all day.
Speaker 5:The 40 is tall as Erica. I don't know how she does it.
Speaker 4:Well, there's the spindle snout, it's the little extension.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that actually does help quite a bit.
Speaker 4:The hub has the extension. You just plop it on and twist it and push. You don't have to line up all the studs.
Speaker 2:Like the UTV. Yeah, give me a 40, don't give me a 35 on a utv, but okay. So I'll ask this specific question to you then, josh. So yes, you get a flat tire, you break a shock, you lose a driveshaft or whatever. Is it like? All right, navigator changes into mechanic. How do you switch gears quickly to make sure you execute on the job when you get out of the truck or car?
Speaker 5:um, try to know where everything's at prior. Um, I'm not the greatest mechanic but I can all those items. I can pretty much figure out for the most part. Um, I know, two years ago at the man we had to change the third member and uh, roy tells me, hey, pull a drive plate. So I grab some tools, you know, and I ask him like what's a drive plate? You know I don't know anything. And I asked him like what's a drive plate? You know, I don't know anything about trucks. It was pretty comical in the month. We both started laughing, you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, um, but you learned other than that yeah, we got it done. Yeah, we got it done, we finished so yeah like I I think it's, I think it's wild to be able to, to do both right, like I mean.
Speaker 4:You've been faced with situations like that you have to be at least somewhat mechanical right, there's so much you can do in some circumstances, but I've always wanted to use a wrench as a tie rod and I got to do that once and it's a lot it takes a lot out of you, because sometimes your fix doesn't always work, and so you got to do it again.
Speaker 4:Um right there's, there's so many things that go into it. But and I kind of touched on it earlier, I think it was with uh trevor when, when both of you are out of the car, because there's times where driver doesn't have to get out, obviously navigator is the first one out to assess and then driver will get out Um, but there's times where where the situation is just so frustrating and you're kind of losing sight of it or you're just kind of over it, making more mistakes because you're in a hurry, right when Sarah and I would just switch, it's like hey, I see it a different way. You're really frustrated, get out of there, it's my turn. And then that's kind of how we worked together.
Speaker 2:Teamwork.
Speaker 4:And I think that's how Ryan and I would work together. He's a great mechanic as well as he's a good driver, but I think that's the key for working on things. Yeah, if you have a driver that doesn't know anything and you're really good at it, you're probably going to do the whole thing because speed-wise, knowledge-wise, you're just going to get it done that much better. But if you're able to switch off and not be frustrated, make less mistakes, I highly recommend that.
Speaker 5:Yeah absolutely yeah, figuring it out, you got to figure it out, you know, and that's the key other right well, and you're also that's kind of in the middle of the desert too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's what it means, so sometimes you have to make weird fixes just to get a couple miles. Sarah and I had to fix a drive shaft with hose clamps just to get out of the racetrack. You know, and it wasn't, we knew it wasn't gonna get us far, but we needed to get out of the racetrack. You know, and it wasn't, we knew it wasn't gonna get us far, but we needed to get out of racetrack.
Speaker 2:So we made it happen, got out of racetrack have you ever had any weird shit like that, josh?
Speaker 5:no, fortunately not just the third member. That was the worst. Um, that's crazy I mean me and leticia, me and leticia at the 500, the Nora 500, we were in the middle of nowhere In the middle of the night. We're in like a stock truck and the wheel locked up, and so we thought, you know, we had no radio communication and it was just a rock like flight caught in the caliper, so it was very minimal but it sounded bad, you know, but like a 20 minute, 10 minute, 10 minute fix, you know.
Speaker 4:And vamos, yeah, just get going again, yeah, sometimes it's not a big deal, but it seemed like one while you're going, or you think you have to get out and then you're like dang it, Is it bad?
Speaker 2:Plenty of times I've had to have a wrench for a tie rod three times in my life no, it's like you like to hit stuff.
Speaker 4:I got, I got you yeah right, I also drove utv.
Speaker 2:So it's just the nature of the beast but, yeah, well, I made it all the way back to the pits in laughlin when I was all the way up on the top of the hardest part is getting the steering rack to push and pull that end back in right exactly that seems to be the hardest part well, and making sure your strap doesn't fall off. But so um, what's next for you, josh?
Speaker 2:uh, we're getting right ahead to crandon, that's gonna be the next one, so dude, that's gonna be, that's gonna be fun. So, uh, at crandon, do they have two guys in the in each class?
Speaker 5:in the class 11 they allow two guys still. Yeah, next year I don't know, but this year yes dude, that's to be so much fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Are you?
Speaker 5:excited.
Speaker 6:Throw Erica in a car.
Speaker 5:Dude.
Speaker 4:I might go to Crandon, it just depends when we're going to pre-run for the 400.
Speaker 5:But I'll go with you, Felix. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to race my car at Crandon. We're building a new car for Nitro Cross, so we go from Crandon straight to Richmond, virginia, and we race the following weekend Cool, and then we'll fly back for the 400.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of racing dude. Are you looking forward to the Land Rush start at Crandon?
Speaker 5:That's going to be wild. That's my favorite. Yeah, actually, I asked Dave to let us race. Do the land rush at Hammers. That's how we did that one.
Speaker 2:Dude, that was your idea.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I missed the land rush from Rage at the River Dude that's so awesome.
Speaker 2:You want to throw any shouts out before we wind down the show?
Speaker 5:I want to thank Vision Canopies for Kyle for always supporting what I do, and Erica, one of my favorite people. She's Erica.
Speaker 4:I got to sit down and do a private lesson with Felix and we had a blast comparing stories just like now and teaching him some things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always awesome.
Speaker 5:I love this community of Offroad. Yeah, no, it's been good. I mean, it's a blessing man. You get to live your dreams, you know, and uh, then you have to make new dreams.
Speaker 2:so here we are yeah, there you go, all right man we'll keep making those new dreams. Dude, really appreciate you hanging out with us on the dirt life show tonight, so we'll see you at the races thank you guys. Good night, all right josh, good night so um, man, we learned a lot today, and now my brain is going to be able to sleep because I learned so much.
Speaker 4:Well, and I think that's kind of the unspoken of navigation. I knew that it was going to be a lot, but I think we touched on some awesome subjects and kind of shined some light on that right seat.
Speaker 2:So we were going to ask some rapid-fire questions to everybody else tonight. It looks like they all bailed, so you're on the hook for these rapid fire questions, all right. So Erica Sacks rapid fire and then we're out. Erica Sacks tacos or hot dogs.
Speaker 4:Tacos.
Speaker 2:Chicken or asada.
Speaker 4:Asada.
Speaker 2:Dunes or the river.
Speaker 4:Ooh dunes.
Speaker 2:Action shots or still shots.
Speaker 4:I like action shots.
Speaker 2:Three-wheeler or quad.
Speaker 4:Quad. I like action shots, three-wheeler or quad, quad Ku-wad for those that I saw on here Pizza rolls or jalapeno poppers. Ooh poppers.
Speaker 2:Let's see here.
Speaker 4:Favorite movie. I'm not a movie girl, I don't know Okay. Then videos or photos. Photos.
Speaker 2:Favorite snack.
Speaker 4:Sour Patch Kids. What other form of racing would you try? Oh, I think boat racing would be kind of cool.
Speaker 2:That would be like like short boat racing or like long distance boat races.
Speaker 4:I don't know. I think both sound fun anything in a boat, okay all right. Final question up in boats.
Speaker 2:So big boat girl chips and guacamole, or french fries and ketchup george makes really good guacamole okay. So are you picking french fries and ketchup, or chips and guac?
Speaker 2:chips, chips and guac all right, we got a winner here, all right. Thank you, erica. Great job on co-hosting the show. You had a lot of good information. We hope all you guys liked it. Thank you guys very much for joining us. You guys are the lifeblood of the show. So please comment in, slide into our dms. Let us know what we can do better. Thank you to all the sponsors of the show. We really appreciate everybody at Max's Tires, shock Therapy, evolution Powersports, zollinger Racing Products, vision Canopies and Starstream. So thank you everybody. We will see you guys at the next race.
Speaker 4:Thank you guys for having me.
Speaker 9:Thanks for listening to the Dirt Life Show. See you next week. We'll see you next time.
